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AGP/PCI ratio, cooling, and OCing further

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 
ive been ocing my system for more than a year now and thanks a bunch for this awesome thread!! i give to u all the credits, it helped me a lot when i was still new to overclocking..

anyway, during that period of time, i was ocing my system using only the integrated graphics controller.. recently, finally i got the money and purchased this new video card.. im just wondering, does overclocking my FSB affect my agp performance as well? there's a portion in my bios which is saying AGP/PCI ratio a think. do you happen to know if changing this setting also means OCing the AGP n PCI?

one more thing.. do you suggest that i need to add extra cooling for my system? the one that ive been using till now is thermaltake spark 7. my CPU which was 2800 is now running stable at 3429 with a temp. of 55C..memory timing is 2.5-4-4-7 or something 2.80v and according to Geil, this memory timing is tight. im not yet contented with this OC, i think that my system could still handle more FSB by making the timing loose dont ya think? can i still go higher and also do i need to upgrade my cpu fan, what do u suggest?

sori for asking a lot of questions but i know that u can give me the best answers here so far.
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post #2 of 11
I moved your post to a stand alone thread as you'll be more likely to get the help you're looking for.

You'll want to lock your AGP frequency as close to 66 MHz as possible, and the PCI frequency should be locked at 33 MHz. That will help to ensure system stability when overclocking.

I would definitely suggest upgrading. I have a Spark 7 on one of my rigs, and that 70 mm fan annoys the snot out of me. If you upgrade to a 90 or 120 mm fan, you'll be very pleasantly surprised how much quieter things are, and you'll get better cooling. Consider one of the Thermalright XP products (xp-90, xp-90c, and xp-120) as they are excellent heatsinks that allow for your choice of fans (I would suggest a Thermaltake A2017 or A2018 for the 90 and 120, respectively).

Since you're running PC4000 RAM, you should be able to keep your RAM timings tight up to 250 MHz system clock (1000 MHz FSB). While you may need to loosen timings after that point, you should be able to runs stock or tighter up to that point. That's assuming that your motherboard can supply enough RAM voltage to keep the DIMMs happy (I can't recall offhand how much vdimm that RAM likes).
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post #3 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeric
I moved your post to a stand alone thread as you'll be more likely to get the help you're looking for.

You'll want to lock your AGP frequency as close to 66 MHz as possible, and the PCI frequency should be locked at 33 MHz. That will help to ensure system stability when overclocking.

I would definitely suggest upgrading. I have a Spark 7 on one of my rigs, and that 70 mm fan annoys the snot out of me. If you upgrade to a 90 or 120 mm fan, you'll be very pleasantly surprised how much quieter things are, and you'll get better cooling. Consider one of the Thermalright XP products (xp-90, xp-90c, and xp-120) as they are excellent heatsinks that allow for your choice of fans (I would suggest a Thermaltake A2017 or A2018 for the 90 and 120, respectively).

Since you're running PC4000 RAM, you should be able to keep your RAM timings tight up to 250 MHz system clock (1000 MHz FSB). While you may need to loosen timings after that point, you should be able to runs stock or tighter up to that point. That's assuming that your motherboard can supply enough RAM voltage to keep the DIMMs happy (I can't recall offhand how much vdimm that RAM likes).
tnx by the way dude.. i havent got any mail notifications bout this one, i thought my message got ignored or something..

anyway, i decided to replace spark7 with big water SE and im currently saving money for it.. do u know how big is the diferrence between the regular air cooling compared to water cooling? how man degress in temperature can water cooling pull down? so do u think replacing my air cooling with water cooling can further stretch my FSB range? yeah with spark7 it sounds very annoying.


about my memory, ive changed it to 3-4-4-8 timing and so far ts doing great.. no reboot or lockups.
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post #4 of 11
The BigWater is a decent lower end WC kit, but considering you'll be replacing a decent lower end HS/F, you'll probably see a considerable drop in temperature. A high quality WC kit can keep a CPU several degrees above ambient, though you won't get that kind of performance out of a BigWater. Still, it's a good kit to break into WC, and you should get some very nice performance out of it for the price (I saw it on PriceWatch today for a hair over $100).

Keeping your temperature low may very well aid your OC, but it really depends where the limitation is on your system. For example, if your RAM or PSU is the limitation, keeping the CPU cooler won't help much (other than to greatly reduce noise). If, however, your CPU temp/voltage is the limiting factor, going WC will be of a major benefit all around.
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post #5 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeric
The BigWater is a decent lower end WC kit, but considering you'll be replacing a decent lower end HS/F, you'll probably see a considerable drop in temperature. A high quality WC kit can keep a CPU several degrees above ambient, though you won't get that kind of performance out of a BigWater. Still, it's a good kit to break into WC, and you should get some very nice performance out of it for the price (I saw it on PriceWatch today for a hair over $100).

Keeping your temperature low may very well aid your OC, but it really depends where the limitation is on your system. For example, if your RAM or PSU is the limitation, keeping the CPU cooler won't help much (other than to greatly reduce noise). If, however, your CPU temp/voltage is the limiting factor, going WC will be of a major benefit all around.
tnx for the fast response dude. considering my memory, do u think i dont have enough room for OC? its a PC400 500MHz.. and what do u mean with my PSU? what are the possible limitations of my PSU? u mean the wattage? or the voltage stability?

coz i guess what limits me is my cpu temp which tends to go very high, i actually found out that there is a bios flash update for my mobo which corrects cpu temp that goes too high.. ope i could get this fixed as soon as possible since the available download in the site is somehow corrupted.

tnx a bunch!
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post #6 of 11
The PSU comment was just a totally generic example. PSUs do have the capability to limit overclocks through either weak (low amperage) or unstable (variable amperage) rails. The only reason I brought that up was to illustrate that there are other "choke" points on overclocking other than the CPU/CPU cooling.

If you run your CPU:RAM at 1:1, you can overclock your system 25 percent before you hit the stock speed for your RAM (CPU=200 MHz stock, RAM=250 MHz stock). That gives you some nice headroom for your overclock. So, as long as you run 1:1, you don't have to worry about your RAM until 3.5 GHz on the CPU. Just run it at the stock settings (or maybe even a little tighter) until that time.

BIOS updates that relate to temperatures generally improve the accuracy of how the sensors are read. Some BIOSes are notorious for producing poor temp readings, and if that's the case with your board, a BIOS update (at least a working one!) could help.
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post #7 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeric
The PSU comment was just a totally generic example. PSUs do have the capability to limit overclocks through either weak (low amperage) or unstable (variable amperage) rails. The only reason I brought that up was to illustrate that there are other "choke" points on overclocking other than the CPU/CPU cooling.

If you run your CPU:RAM at 1:1, you can overclock your system 25 percent before you hit the stock speed for your RAM (CPU=200 MHz stock, RAM=250 MHz stock). That gives you some nice headroom for your overclock. So, as long as you run 1:1, you don't have to worry about your RAM until 3.5 GHz on the CPU. Just run it at the stock settings (or maybe even a little tighter) until that time.

BIOS updates that relate to temperatures generally improve the accuracy of how the sensors are read. Some BIOSes are notorious for producing poor temp readings, and if that's the case with your board, a BIOS update (at least a working one!) could help.

i see... so dont u think i could go beyond the 3.5GHz threshold? o by the way, i didnt flash my bios to fix the cpu temp problem, fortunately it was corrected after i downloaded the newer version of core center. MSI's OC software. it fixed my CPU temp even in BIOS... more accurate now.. i was able to run it as 3.5 before but wasnt that stable.. i figured out maybe water cooling can help pull up my FSB..
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post #8 of 11
It may be possible to break 3.5 GHz. I mentioned that frequency only because that will get your RAM to stock speed; from there you can overclock it, and it should OC well. The chances of the RAM being your limiting factor is very very slim.

WC may well help. You could also get improved air cooling. A pretty solid setup (xp-90 plus a good fan) runs around $40-$50 if you don't want to spend quite as much right away.
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post #9 of 11
Thread Starter 
tnx for all ur help!
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post #10 of 11
Thread Starter 
hey dude, 3 days from now im about to purchase thermaltake big wate se.. im actually wondering if what is limiting me from my OC..

Northwodd pentium 4 2.8CGhz @ 3318Ghz (800FSB)
Geil Ultra Platinum PC4000 (DDR500)
MSI 865g


my current settings:
1:1 ratio CPURAM
CPU freq - 237Mhz
CPU voltage - 1.55v
CPU temp idle -48C
CPU temp burn - 55C
DRAM Freq - 474Mhz
DRAM voltage - 2.9v
DRAM timing 3-4-4-8
AGP/PCI ratio: default

it is stable...

BUT when i try to set my CPU freq to 240 and so on, it reboots.
what else do u suggest to boost up my FSB? if ever i purchase this watercooling device, im afraid that it wouldnt help much in pulling up my FSB further.. i dnt want to spend on something that will not help cranking up my rig
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