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post #511 of 583
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fortunex;14187291 
No, GFLOP/s mean very little. Integer operations are a much better way of measuring PC CPU performance, floating point operations are handled by the GPU in most cases (hence why video cards are breaking the 2-3 TFLOP/s mark while CPUs are still struggling to break 100 GFLOP/s in most cases).

rolleyes.gif


Integer measurment gives the exact same result as floating point. This is one of the few benchmarks that translate perfectly in real life performance.
And you can measure with integers if you wish, a x4 @3.4 will still win over a x3 @3.7.
It's gonna be the exact same result, mate.
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post #512 of 583
Also there is *NO* way his x4 3.4Ghz will bottleneck a 6770. This is what matters. Both *now* and *in the future*. It's just plain better.
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post #513 of 583
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronnin426850 View Post
Integer measurment gives the exact same result as floating point. This is one of the few benchmarks that translate perfectly in real life performance.
And you can measure with integers if you wish, a x4 @3.4 will still win over a x3 @3.7.
It's gonna be the exact same result, mate.
No, it doesn't translate perfectly. GFLOP/s matter VERY LITTLE when it comes to most real-life CPU applications, as floating point calculations are handled mostly by the GPU. The CPU handles integer operations.

Yes, in a synthetic CPU IOPs benchmark, the x4 will probably win. In most games and applications, the higher clocked x3 will win. But if he plays games that support quad core (the 3 he listed don't), or uses apps that benefit from the extra core versus the extra clock speed, then he should use the x4 config. Given the information that we currently have about the programs he uses though, the x3 setting will perform better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronnin426850 View Post
Also there is *NO* way his x4 3.4Ghz will bottleneck a 6770. This is what matters. Both *now* and *in the future*. It's just plain better.
Nobody said anything about bottlenecking. But now that you bring it up, yes, it can bottleneck his 6770, such as in heavily CPU bound games like GTA4.
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post #514 of 583
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fortunex View Post
No, it doesn't translate perfectly. GFLOP/s matter VERY LITTLE when it comes to most real-life CPU applications, as floating point calculations are handled mostly by the GPU. The CPU handles integer operations.

Yes, in a synthetic CPU IOPs benchmark, the x4 will probably win. In most games and applications, the higher clocked x3 will win. But if he plays games that support quad core (the 3 he listed don't), or uses apps that benefit from the extra core versus the extra clock speed, then he should use the x4 config. Given the information that we currently have about the programs he uses though, the x3 setting will perform better.



Nobody said anything about bottlenecking. But now that you bring it up, yes, it can bottleneck his 6770, such as in heavily CPU bound games like GTA4.
In GTA4 any of the listed options will bottleneck
And my point about the Gflops was - if CPU1 has 20% higher Gflop score than CPU2, it will also have 20% higher integer calculation score.
Doesn't matter if floating point operations are actually important or not, they give accurate idea about the overall *RELATIVE* performance of the CPU.

I know that CPU most probably won't be performing floating point operations in real life (except for folding), BUT if it yields more Gflops than the alternative, it will ouperform.

That's what it means that Gflops get carried well to real life performance. I'm not implying that the CPU will be doing heavy flops in regular applications or games. But higher Gflops = faster CPU.

Now, core cout support is another story, and is bound to stay in the past. +even if games keep being Dual-core optimized (which they won't), 300Mhz is not enough of a difference to sacrifice another core (which can be performing other tasks, while you play your Dual-core opt game).
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post #515 of 583
Relax Fortunex and Ronnin.

I just wanted to know which will perform better in my games and apps.
Thanks for the information, really helpful.

Regarding the "bottleneck", so neither x3 at 3.75 nor x4 at 3.35 won't be a hindrance for my 6770, right?

Anyway, how will you know if the application likes more cores or higher clock speed? Sorry, I just really have no idea.

I guess I'll be going with x3 for now. Thanks!

Edit: You just got me confused again. lol
Edited by eduforonda - 7/12/11 at 5:25am
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post #516 of 583
Quote:
Originally Posted by eduforonda View Post
Relax Fortunex and Ronnin.

I just wanted to know which will perform better in my games and apps.
Thanks for the information, really helpful.

Regarding the "bottleneck", so neither x3 at 3.75 nor x4 at 3.35 won't be a hindrance for my 6770, right?

Anyway, how will you know if the application likes more cores or higher clock speed? Sorry, I just really have no idea.

I guess I'll be going with x3 for now. Thanks!

Edit: You just got me confused again. lol
Oh, I'm perfectly relaxed It's just a friendly conversation

I honestly have no idea how you can find out how many threads a game uses.
Task Manager is an effective method only if your game can max the CPU. If you see all 4 CPU readings go 100% then the game surely has 4+ threads and benefits fully from them.
Else, if it dingles around 40% on all cores, you can't really know, because AMD tends to switch threads to different cores in real time, spreading the load evenly across the cores. Sometimes. I've seen it once. Not all apps do that, it's a bit of a mess there. You can reffer to the game forums, or gamers on this forum, they should know

Cheers
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post #517 of 583
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronnin426850 View Post
In GTA4 any of the listed options will bottleneck
And my point about the Gflops was - if CPU1 has 20% higher Gflop score than CPU2, it will also have 20% higher integer calculation score.
Doesn't matter if floating point operations are actually important or not, they give accurate idea about the overall *RELATIVE* performance of the CPU.

I know that CPU most probably won't be performing floating point operations in real life (except for folding), BUT if it yields more Gflops than the alternative, it will ouperform.

That's what it means that Gflops get carried well to real life performance. I'm not implying that the CPU will be doing heavy flops in regular applications or games. But higher Gflops = faster CPU.

Now, core cout support is another story, and is bound to stay in the past. +even if games keep being Dual-core optimized (which they won't), 300Mhz is not enough of a difference to sacrifice another core (which can be performing other tasks, while you play your Dual-core opt game).
Yes, it will bottleneck under any setting. That was my point.

And no, that's false. Maybe you should look up some benchmarks on this. A processors FLOP/s does not scale with its IOP/s.

If processor A has performs 3 times as many FLOP/s as processor B, but they use a program that doesn't use FLOP/s, it isn't going to outperform. That's my point. FLOP/s doesn't mean anything in real world usage (except folding).

He already has 3 cores, that's enough to run your OS + misc apps like Skype in the background and the dual core optimized game. The extra core won't do anything unless you're doing some mad multitasking or using programs that take advantage of 4 cores (which he isn't). TomsHardware published an article about this a while ago. Regardless, if he starts playing quad core optimized games, he can just switch over to his quad setting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eduforonda View Post
Relax Fortunex and Ronnin.

I just wanted to know which will perform better in my games and apps.
Thanks for the information, really helpful.

Regarding the "bottleneck", so neither x3 at 3.75 nor x4 at 3.35 won't be a hindrance for my 6770, right?

Anyway, how will you know if the application likes more cores or higher clock speed? Sorry, I just really have no idea.

I guess I'll be going with x3 for now. Thanks!

Edit: You just got me confused again. lol
In the games and apps you use, the x3 setting will be slightly faster.

Regarding bottleneck, it depends on the game. Something like Left 4 Dead/other Source-engine games are very processor-intensive, and very light on the GPU (I could max it out at 1080p no problem with an HD4850), so the bottleneck will almost always be on the CPU in that case, versus say, Crysis, which is GPU-intensive.

But there will always be something bottlenecking something else in your system. Your rig is pretty balanced, don't worry about it.

And you can either bring up Task Manager while using your program and see if all your cores are being used equally, or if the usage is very uneven (80% on one core with ~20% on the rest is pretty indicative of a game that doesn't support many cores), or you can look up benchmarks using the games/apps you want to know about. If the game performs about the same with 2 or 3 cores versus 4, then it isn't quad-core optimized.

Here's 2 benchmark charts, first one is a program that takes advantage of 4 cores, second one is one that doesn't (this also helps show Ronnin that GFLOP/s don't translate to real world performance):





As you can see, the first one scales as more cores are added, while Crysis (as with most games and many apps) only takes advantage of 1-2 cores (the performance boost from going to 3 cores is from offloading the OS/background apps onto the third core)
Edited by Fortunex - 7/12/11 at 11:17pm
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post #518 of 583
Thanks Fortunex!
This information really helps, I'm gald I asked you guys.

The balanced rig was what I was aiming for in this first build, just a fail part in choosing MoBo.

Anyway, I have OCN to ask next time for my future build.

Cheers!
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post #519 of 583
Hey guys,

Glad to see a dedicated thread for all of the X3 owners. I love my X3 450 Rana. Might even hit 4GHz soon.
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post #520 of 583
Quote:
Originally Posted by rolltideroll View Post
Hey guys,

Glad to see a dedicated thread for all of the X3 owners. I love my X3 450 Rana. Might even hit 4GHz soon.
Running the same, hits 4.16 @1.45v, currently running 4.0 @1.43-44v. Great CPU
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