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post #781 of 4140
Quote:
Originally Posted by tycoonbob View Post

I kinda understand where you are going with the URE argument, but when using a real raid controller, the drives are being scrubbed in the background. When you expand an array, that's similar to a rebuild in how the drive performance will be lessened, etc. When doing a rebuild of a Raid 5, and you encounter a URE, rebuild would stop and kill the array. However, when using a quality controller, UREs will be discovered well before the rebuild, due to background scrubbing.
A typical consumer grade SATA HDD is rated at 1x10^14 URE (1 bit in about 12TB), with enterprise grade HDDs rated at 1x10^15 or 1x10^16. This shows that when buying quality parts, you lessen the risk. Also, it depends on how large your array is, and how large it is going to be. Most importantly, background scrubbing can prevent any UREs in the first place. Don't go cheap on your controller for this reason alone.

I went cheap on my controller but only because I run ZFS which does all that stuff in software.

In fact I've been really impressed with ZFS as I've tried my damnedest to break my pool and no matter what I threw at it, ZFS recovered the data (to the point where I was removing the parity drive mid-write then forced a kernel panic and everything still popped up fine).

I do some pretty nasty stuff to my file server so keep a close check on the performance and reliability of the drives - thus far I've had memory, motherboards and even the mouse fail yet the HDDs are still performing. I really couldn't ask for better.
post #782 of 4140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan9 View Post

I went cheap on my controller but only because I run ZFS which does all that stuff in software.
In fact I've been really impressed with ZFS as I've tried my damnedest to break my pool and no matter what I threw at it, ZFS recovered the data (to the point where I was removing the parity drive mid-write then forced a kernel panic and everything still popped up fine).
I do some pretty nasty stuff to my file server so keep a close check on the performance and reliability of the drives - thus far I've had memory, motherboards and even the mouse fail yet the HDDs are still performing. I really couldn't ask for better.

I personally am not a fan of software raid, but yes...when using software raid the controller isn't really a controller. It's more of a HBA or expander. My previous comment was directly pointed at hardware raids.

Another thought, in an enterprise setting (which I see several different environments being an IT Consultant), their SANs, NASs, DASs, and/or NUSs...are also expanding based on need. Does that mean that these corporations are doing their storage wrong?
post #783 of 4140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan9 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tycoonbob View Post

I kinda understand where you are going with the URE argument, but when using a real raid controller, the drives are being scrubbed in the background. When you expand an array, that's similar to a rebuild in how the drive performance will be lessened, etc. When doing a rebuild of a Raid 5, and you encounter a URE, rebuild would stop and kill the array. However, when using a quality controller, UREs will be discovered well before the rebuild, due to background scrubbing.
A typical consumer grade SATA HDD is rated at 1x10^14 URE (1 bit in about 12TB), with enterprise grade HDDs rated at 1x10^15 or 1x10^16. This shows that when buying quality parts, you lessen the risk. Also, it depends on how large your array is, and how large it is going to be. Most importantly, background scrubbing can prevent any UREs in the first place. Don't go cheap on your controller for this reason alone.

I went cheap on my controller but only because I run ZFS which does all that stuff in software.

In fact I've been really impressed with ZFS as I've tried my damnedest to break my pool and no matter what I threw at it, ZFS recovered the data (to the point where I was removing the parity drive mid-write then forced a kernel panic and everything still popped up fine).

I do some pretty nasty stuff to my file server so keep a close check on the performance and reliability of the drives - thus far I've had memory, motherboards and even the mouse fail yet the HDDs are still performing. I really couldn't ask for better.

ZFS? Your running bsd right? I considering debian gnu/kfreebsd over linux just for ZFS support. You think its worth it?

@ramicio there is no reason what so ever to use that kind of language. Even censored its A. Being, well, what you said and B. agianst tos.
post #784 of 4140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan9 View Post

I went cheap on my controller but only because I run ZFS which does all that stuff in software.
In fact I've been really impressed with ZFS as I've tried my damnedest to break my pool and no matter what I threw at it, ZFS recovered the data (to the point where I was removing the parity drive mid-write then forced a kernel panic and everything still popped up fine).
I do some pretty nasty stuff to my file server so keep a close check on the performance and reliability of the drives - thus far I've had memory, motherboards and even the mouse fail yet the HDDs are still performing. I really couldn't ask for better.

+1 I've done some of the same. Plus how cool is ZFS export/import ?

ZFS_is_da_bawls. thumb.gif

@jrl1357 - Try the OpenIndiana build 151_a5. Totally worth it.
Edited by ugotd8 - 7/20/12 at 12:04pm
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post #785 of 4140
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrl1357 View Post

ZFS? Your running bsd right? I considering debian gnu/kfreebsd over linux just for ZFS support. You think its worth it?
@ramicio there is no reason what so ever to use that kind of language. Even censored its A. Being, well, what you said and B. agianst tos.
Yeah, FreeBSD.
Personally I'd recommend you use FreeBSD rather than some weird GNU/BSD hybrid. While there area few minor differences in the common userland (eg different command switches for ps), FreeBSD really is a fantastic OS to work with. I'd definitely recommend at least trying it first anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ugotd8 View Post

+1 I've done some of the same. Plus how cool is ZFS export/import ?
ZFS_is_da_bawls. thumb.gif
@jrl1357 - Try the OpenIndiana build 151_a5. Totally worth it.

There's too many cool ZFS features to mention, but snapshotting is one of my favourite.

How is OpenIndiana? I was largely disappointed with the crappiness of OpenSolaris despite being a Solaris advocate (or maybe because I'm a Solaris advocate? laugher.gif )
post #786 of 4140
I'm already trying freebsd biggrin.gif one of three oses on my main rig right now. I'm just better with debian, but thats by experience, and i'm gaining in freebsd. I'll give openindiana a shot too wink.gif
post #787 of 4140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan9 View Post

Yeah, FreeBSD.
Personally I'd recommend you use FreeBSD rather than some weird GNU/BSD hybrid. While there area few minor differences in the common userland (eg different command switches for ps), FreeBSD really is a fantastic OS to work with. I'd definitely recommend at least trying it first anyway.
There's too many cool ZFS features to mention, but snapshotting is one of my favourite.
How is OpenIndiana? I was largely disappointed with the crappiness of OpenSolaris despite being a Solaris advocate (or maybe because I'm a Solaris advocate? laugher.gif )

I think both OpenIndiana AND OpenSolaris are great. I have been a Solaris admin for, well, a long time. thumb.gif

Agreed OpenSolaris wasn't as good as it could have been, but believe me the developers worked down the hall and it was a pretty cool time, although Sun was dying and on it's last breath just about the time OpenSolaris was becoming popular so some mistakes were made developer & corporate wise. Can you tell I'm an SA by that massive run-on sentence ? biggrin.gif

Anyway, OpenIndiana has been great so far. I run my server headless and therefore just used the text installer which doesn't install any of the GUI tools. Looking forward to playing with the auto_snapshot feature of the new version of ZFS.

EDIT: props to all my unix brethren here, didn't expect to find much more than 16-year old gamers here on OCN. thumb.gif
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post #788 of 4140
And where are the post your server entries?

Please stay on topic. =)
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post #789 of 4140
Quote:
Originally Posted by ugotd8 View Post

I think both OpenIndiana AND OpenSolaris are great. I have been a Solaris admin for, well, a long time. thumb.gif
Agreed OpenSolaris wasn't as good as it could have been, but believe me the developers worked down the hall and it was a pretty cool time, although Sun was dying and on it's last breath just about the time OpenSolaris was becoming popular so some mistakes were made developer & corporate wise. Can you tell I'm an SA by that massive run-on sentence ? biggrin.gif
Anyway, OpenIndiana has been great so far. I run my server headless and therefore just used the text installer which doesn't install any of the GUI tools. Looking forward to playing with the auto_snapshot feature of the new version of ZFS.
EDIT: props to all my unix brethren here, didn't expect to find much more than 16-year old gamers here on OCN. thumb.gif
I hadn't realised OpenIndiana could run headless - it was one of the reasons I opted for FreeBSD over OpenSolaris.
Also, I thought Oracle stopped releasing the source for ZFS after v28. Is OpenIndiana still getting updates (eg encryption)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by vpadro View Post

And where are the post your server entries?
Please stay on topic. =)
This is, kind of tongue.gif
post #790 of 4140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan9 View Post

I hadn't realised OpenIndiana could run headless - it was one of the reasons I opted for FreeBSD over OpenSolaris.
Also, I thought Oracle stopped releasing the source for ZFS after v28. Is OpenIndiana still getting updates (eg encryption)?
This is, kind of tongue.gif

There is discussion of encryption coming to OI here. There is a project page for encryption at illumos, but no activity to speak of.

Last time I looked into it, it looked like ZFS + encryption + open-source = non-existent. If you are willing to live without open-source, Solaris 11 express has encryption and is free.

Captain obvious warning: choose carefully, once you do the zfs upgrade to your pool these days it's like getting married to a branch. biggrin.gif
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