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what exactly is a water chiller

2K views 20 replies 6 participants last post by  dsddcd 
#1 ·
i've heard descriptions, but i want to know what it is in detail and what u need to make one...sound a bit easier than phase change to set up
 
#3 ·
well if you have any second hand stores such as value village or an amity type of thing where people donate old stuff you could pick one up. thats what i did, 15 bucks for a 6,000 BTU air conditioner. if you are thinking of building one you should really check out project cold by tuchan first, thats what got me inspired, really a great project if you are up to all the work involved.
 
#4 ·
Building a Water Chiller is just like building a Phase Change system, if your building from scratch that is.

The only difference is the evaporator or lack of in a water chiller.

With Water Chiller's there are many different designs for the HX (Heat Exchanger), some are simple and some are complex.

The best thing about water chilling is that it can be easily done by taking a working Air Conditioning unit and placing the evaporator (look's like a large radiator) and placing it into the reservoir, where the liquid coolant is held.

Don't confuse the evap. in the Air Con system with the Condenser though, just put your hand up to them, the cold one is the evap.

When using a water chiller you must condensation proof your motherboard and surrounding areas just as you would when using Phase Change, you'll also have to insulate the tubing and water block.

Because the coolant is now below freezing you'll also have to put anti-freeze into the reservoir to allow the coolant to go below freezing.

Remember that you'll also have to use an approved pump, any good quality metal pump will do, plastic one's will just crack. It's the same case for the water block, you must use one with a metal top and your tubing must be capable of going below freezing aswell, Tygon R3603 is capable of going as low as -73c while staying flexible and not cracking.

If you have any question's feel free to PM me
 
#5 ·
Quote:


Originally Posted by PetrolHead

Building a Water Chiller is just like building a Phase Change system, if your building from scratch that is.

The only difference is the evaporator or lack of in a water chiller.

With Water Chiller's there are many different designs for the HX (Heat Exchanger), some are simple and some are complex.

The best thing about water chilling is that it can be easily done by taking a working Air Conditioning unit and placing the evaporator (look's like a large radiator) and placing it into the reservoir, where the liquid coolant is held.

Don't confuse the evap. in the Air Con system with the Condenser though, just put your hand up to them, the cold one is the evap.

When using a water chiller you must condensation proof your motherboard and surrounding areas just as you would when using Phase Change, you'll also have to insulate the tubing and water block.

Because the coolant is now below freezing you'll also have to put anti-freeze into the reservoir to allow the coolant to go below freezing.

Remember that you'll also have to use an approved pump, any good quality metal pump will do, plastic one's will just crack. It's the same case for the water block, you must use one with a metal top and your tubing must be capable of going below freezing aswell, Tygon R3603 is capable of going as low as -73c while staying flexible and not cracking.

If you have any question's feel free to PM me


wow really thanks man....too bad i can only give you +1 rep at a time
i have WC that i built myself from scratch and i was gonna start phase...but this waterchiller idea seems to get similar sub-zero temps (up to -50 idle i heard) and its FAR easier to build...so ok this is a primitive list to get me started of what i think i need for this:
1. Air Conditioner (5000-10000 BTU, cheap of course
)
2. Reservoir
3. Radiator? or not i dont think so but im not sure
4. Coolant
5. Dielectric Grease Spray
6. Waterblock
7. Pump
8. Tygon tubing
9.Antifreeze
but im kinda confused lol can you maybe give me a diagram (simple, maybe done in MSPaint) of what it is supposed to look like, arrangement of all parts and exactly how they are connected, exactly where they go in relation to each other, how everything is connected....im repeating myself sorry im a little nervous because i dont have a lot of money (i sell computers on eBay, but that goes to my pathetic little college fund (ill need all that i can come up with for med school), so i can supplement my many scholarchips with that money) and i keep 10% + all gifted money for computers....i dont want to screw up...id have to use the 400MHz SUN UNIX Workstation i found in the trash thats actually fast but has no way of connecting to the internet....no USB so DSL modem wouldn't work...anyway thats why im nervous...sorry but i need help
 
#7 ·
Quote:


Originally Posted by CyberDruid



This is Roxter's set up--you can see the AC unit torn open, the evap in the white plastic bucket and that's how it works--the thread is in Watercooling


however where are the tubes that go to PC (stupid question i kno, but just bear with me please)
again thanx
 
#8 ·
well that picture was an early post and simply demonstrated the chiller part of the loop. The second half of the loop is basically like dismantling the radiator from your WC set up, adding some tubing, and putting it in that white plastic bucket with the evap.

However you would want to use an insulated container. It would need a coil more than a radiator honestly, and mant excellent points regarding this have been posted up by others in this thread linked here: http://www.overclock.net/water-cooli...ler-setup.html
 
#9 ·
here is a very good waterchiller http://www.overclock.net/phase-chang...k-warning.html

scroll down to the bottom and its the post with the thermometer at -30C. That will hopefully help you out a bit. as you can see there is a fan blowing out the hot air from the condensor and the evap is put in a cooler most likely, and then insulated. what you need to do is rip open an old air conditioner and bend the pipes that go from the evap to the compressor. Be very careful when you are doing this to make sure you dont break any pipes and then plunk it in a tub of water and put it on for a few minutes. you should start to see frost on the evap pipes within minutes. when mine was in water without any antifreeze the water around the evap would freeze in about 5 minutes. and now i have -50C antifreeze in there at a ratio of 3 parts antifreeze and 1 part water and i'm still getting slush around the evap, now that is COLD. you should get pretty good results from this and its a very fun project for a cheap price compared to a phase change. BTW i strongly reccomend that if you use antifreeze you use plumbing antifreeze instead of the normal stuff as the plumbing antifreeze is non-toxic. still very cheap as i got my 4L bottle for just under 5.00$ anyway, look at my thread and maybe post some stuff. there is some VERY good information on there that i think you and I will both benifit from!
 
#12 ·
No I don't have any pics--I did a lot of research on it though and found some good build logs on different forums. The principal is simple and only makes sense from a (pardon my french) ghettomod viewpoint--like the mad scientest laboratory with all sorts of toxic dangerous stuff everywhere. Obviouslt using the same equipment for phase change is a far more leoquent solution.

The appeal of the chiller rig is getting subzero at the minimum outlay of cash.

How you engineer the slushbox so that it is not a hazard is part of the challenge for a long term run. I would look into designing some custom foam filled enclosure--I do it all the time on yachts to make freeezer boxes and so forth from core materials. The two part foam fills the void you build into your container thereby insulating it--a sturdy polyethylene bucket surrounded by a larger bucket would suffice--a lid should be contrived that allows for the lines to run in and out. The Slushbox is going to be filled with subzero denatured lcohol and PEG--toxic and flammable--so take that into consideration re: placement and proximity to electrical equipment, static, etc.

If possible the unit should be assembled so that all the components are on some kind of mobile platform (a bulders cart would be ideal)--not having mobile parts would allow hardlines to be run from the slushbox to the WB on the PC--which would have a much better survival rate than frozen tubing--3/8" copper would work fine and be flexible enough to allow service to the WB without braking the lines open. Serious precautions need ot be taken to avoid any exposed cold lines for two reasons: frostbite and condensation. A drip bend is a good precaution to allow any moisture to fall off the line before entering the PC casing.

Obviouslt the mobo will need to be protected either by having a backside heater pad or by coating the board with a special sealant and by using dielectric grease on the actual cpu interface. THe WB mass itself will want ot form ice and needs a housing much like a phase change head--ideally it would be heated on the inside like the premier VapoChill unit--but a properly conformed insultion should work--the idea is to keep the moisture in the air from contacting cold surfaces near the interior of the PC case.
 
#14 ·
Well if you look at the rating on the side of some antifreeze that will give you a starting point--but it is also about the viscosity of the coolant at the temperature--it will turn into slush--which might be okay for the slushbox part of the chiller rig as it is basically inert and the evap and cpu cooler lines basically just lay in the slush--still you need it stay semiliquid in order to best exchange the heat. A pond of warm around the CPU lines and a block of ice around the evap is the likely scenario with pure water--antifreeze would be more like a slurpee.

It is the CPU cooling loop that poses more of a viscosity problem--the pump will not want to churn slush through little copper lines, or even big hoses--the pump will want to pump something resembling water--and the only thing that will have that viscosity at exreme temps is alcohol mixed with some PEG. I have also found some dielectric oil that was used for submerging a mobo during liquid nitrogen overclocking attempts--but it has extremely poor heat transfer qualities compared to denatured alcohol.

If anyone knows of a better safer coolant for -65-70 C temps please let me know and post it up.
 
#15 ·
Have a look at this drawing, sorry it's a bit crap but i just hate mspaint.

Do you see how it work's now?

If you just put load's of good quality antifreeze in with the water then your sorted and should have no trouble what so ever.

You don't need a Radiator as the evap. from the Air Con unit is removing the heat, a radiator in this setup would increase temp's.

Quote:


Originally Posted by amd_hardsoftware

1. Air Conditioner (5000-10000 BTU, cheap of course
)
2. Reservoir (a big 10l tub would be good, don't use glass
)
3. Neoprene Insulation
4. Coolant/De-Ionized water
5. Dielectric Grease Spray or PCB Laquer spray
6. Metal Top Waterblock (The DD TDX Block with a Brass top work's well)
7. Good Quality Metal Pump
8. Tygon tubing
9. Good Quality Antifreeze

I added some thing's and highlighted them in red.

Any more question's just PM me
 
#17 ·
I am no expert in cpu refrigeration but I do know abit about industrial Refrigeration Particularly NH3. Why dosent any body use a shell and tube or plate heat exchanger. This would make for a clean easy solution and most people could build them easily at home with very minimal tools and a bit of time.

Second not so much related to Refrigeration but, I have to ask if anyone has tried this yet. I am tring to debate on how to cool my new machine and I am debating on using the water pressure from the house and running a small hose similar to the back of the refrigerator in the a heat sink on my CPU. There are no issues with this but one, where schould I pump the used water? I don't have a softener to dump into and I don't want to waste it either. Any Suggestions?
 
#19 ·
Quote:


Originally Posted by PetrolHead

Well that's how i would build one, i would either build my own heat exchanger or i would use a plate heat exchanger, it cut's out all the messy bit's like having a great big 10l res. and tubing going everywhere.

It's easier just to get a cooler or something that is pre insulated to save you from all the troubles. I currnetly am using the Rubbermaid 12 Can cooler.. find something that can fit your evap. snug and your good to go.
 
#20 ·
Quote:


Originally Posted by dsddcd

I am no expert in cpu refrigeration but I do know abit about industrial Refrigeration Particularly NH3. Why dosent any body use a shell and tube or plate heat exchanger. This would make for a clean easy solution and most people could build them easily at home with very minimal tools and a bit of time.

Second not so much related to Refrigeration but, I have to ask if anyone has tried this yet. I am tring to debate on how to cool my new machine and I am debating on using the water pressure from the house and running a small hose similar to the back of the refrigerator in the a heat sink on my CPU. There are no issues with this but one, where schould I pump the used water? I don't have a softener to dump into and I don't want to waste it either. Any Suggestions?

how would you build/use and apply a "shell and tube or plate heat exchanger" to cpu cooling...if u could help me maybe ill do that....if its better than WC (i already have custom built wc) and if it is cheap
 
#21 ·
A shell and tube would probably be the easiest. I sell them on a massive scale but the pricipal is the same.

With a peice of pipe threaded on each end, buy two heads that will thread on and preferably braize them closed. Before closing the pipe braize in the the tube bundle, imagine a round plate with several holes drilled in it which is fitted with small pipes. Those holes have aluminum or cooper pipe braised in and run from head to head. The refrigerant is run through the tube bundle and the water circulates though the shell and is cooled by the tube bundle. see the following site for reference:
http://www.secshellandtube.com/

Plate exchangers have alternaing plates of refrigerant and water.
www.flatplate.com

The trick is engineering the corecct sizes
 
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