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Fan-less water cooling?  

post #1 of 10
Thread Starter 
If you have a big enough rad, do you REALLY need a fan? (I'm talking HUGE like xbox huge)

I'm thinking of (because I have an antec 900) an external water cooling thing hooked up through my window outside (its summer time and its only 60 degrees WTH?)

*I live in alaska, and yes this build is for sarah pailin (no jk its for me)

So my decision to make is with my budget of $450 with a $100 480 waterblock does not leave much room for a case at all. I might up my budget $150 but its already over the cost of a crap computer from dell

So the thing I am asking is

1) You just get tubing to go to a radiator, if the radiator stays cool is there a problem?
2) So I do use fans on my radiator... do I just put it anywhere in my room? Is there a limit on how long the tubing can be?
3) If you would be kind to reccomend a case for water cooling. Like a case with a hole specifically for the rad. (was looking at this, here are pics)
4) Can I use permafrost to my advantage?
5) ever done a underground liquid cooling system (liderally)

So $450 - $100 (480 block)
then 350 - 70 (cpu block)
280 - 280 (case)
0 - 20 tubing, barbs, etc
-20 - 140 rad
-160 - 50 fans
-210 - 50 pump
-260 - 50 resivor
= -310 or $760

Please help me trim this cost!
Would an external rad work? (besides loosing beauty contests functional?)
If I had a huge one, would I need fans?

*I'm asking this because I have to dig >5 feet for permafrost. K.
I dig a hole in the ground and pipe it from my window. (window is ground level)

Then I get as much surface area as I can on the tubing (without rad?) fill it with clay/cement/same dirt

Let me use my alaskan enviroment to my advantage!
Make it so I can overclock better than 90% of people in the world because I simply can cool my pc better (not because of skils, just because I'm from alaska)

Even in the BLISTERING SUMMER (75 F) I dig a foot and the ground is cool to the touch.





Here is a cold story.
One day it was 80 below (F)
Seccond coldest day ever and I was ~9
I had to go outside (I don't remember why, my mom told me we had to go somewhere and I couldn't stay home and play my N64 all day.)

So this trucker was changing a tire because his went flat (cold mabye)
and he was rolling it off the back part of the truck. He let go thinking it would bounce but it broke. It shatterd like glass. All you heard was a crunch and it imploded on impact with the rim still rolling.

This is the enviroment I live in. Let me use this to my advantage. How would you like it if you could get an unlimited supply of 40 below for 2 months and a ample supply of 0 for 5?

All temps are in farenhight because I'm not a brit
    
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post #2 of 10
I think you will still need fans on your radiator because of course the radiator will heat up and will need a constant flow of air going through it to keep it cool. If you was to put the radiator outside your window like you suggested it could work though as long as there is a constant cool breeze You might need some anti-freeze in the loop though so your tubing doesn't freeze and the radiator doesn't crack in that freezing weather

I have seen posts of people where they don't have fans on there radiator but they put the radiator in a bucket of ice cold water and it works but of course the water needs changing every so often to keep it cool.

Just remember one thing, the bigger the loop, the more tubing and the bigger the radiator the more fluid there is to cool and this can make it harder to keep it cool. So having a huge radiator without fans wouldn't really make it any easier

The only way I can see you shaving any money off that loop is to get rid of the res entirely and just use a t-line that will save you a fair bit as you just need a 3 way connector piece and some extra tubing.

I will keep an eye on this thread as it looks interesting.
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post #3 of 10
zalman had a similar type fanless watercooling system and consisted of a tower shaped heatsink that sat outside of the case.
 
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post #4 of 10
1) You just get tubing to go to a radiator, if the radiator stays cool is there a problem?

Still need a Pump....

2) So I do use fans on my radiator... do I just put it anywhere in my room? Is there a limit on how long the tubing can be?

The longer the tubing the more powerful the pump needs to be... especially if you put lots of turns and uphill flow...

3) If you would be kind to reccomend a case for water cooling. Like a case with a hole specifically for the rad. (was looking at this, here are pics)

There are lots of cases my current case has room for 3x 360 Rads stock... many cases have room for at least one rad... but they can cost... the best (cheapest) idea is a radbox and external rad behind the case...

4) Can I use permafrost to my advantage?

Yep

5) ever done a underground liquid cooling system (liderally)

It's been done, for sure, but no need for a Rad in that case, you just run lonnnnggggg runs/coils of copper tubing under the frost line... and above the water line...

So $450 - $100 (480 block)
then 350 - 70 (cpu block) (what block is this? what CPU are you using? you could get away with a cheaper FuZion or Sapphire for $30-40)
280 - 280 (case)
0 - 20 tubing, barbs, etc
-20 - 140 rad
-160 - 50 fans
-210 - 50 pump
-260 - 50 resivor (use a t-line instead)
= -310 or $760
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post #5 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by ez12a View Post
zalman had a similar type fanless watercooling system and consisted of a tower shaped heatsink that sat outside of the case.
Yup and it was huge!(See my picture, it is the same height as my Cosmos 1000 case.) I think they stopped making it now . (My local seller doesn't list it anymore.)

It cannot cool an i7-920 as I know someone who tried this and the CPU hit 95C after an hour or so of Prime 95 and throttled itself down. They then added a 3x 120mm fans to the set up and temps were stable around 68C.

I tested my Zalman on my gtx295 EK block, it works for about an hour running Bad Company 2, but the water in the rad hit 51C, so I then stopped playing BC2. (Adding a rs 240 rad into the loop reduced the temps by 9C.)

Aquatuning now sell a passive rads.

http://www.aquatuning.co.uk/index.ph...3_Passive.html
LL
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post #6 of 10
If you run the rad outside you may also get water freezing issues (if no anti freeze) and also water condensation issues.
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post #7 of 10
Fanless should, i think, work quite well if it's cold outside. The passive Reserator wasn't so lovely in part because it's already in a warmish environment (your room). But if you put it outside, like in Alaska...

However, for fanless radiators, I think that you might want to use something with less air resistance (not a traditional forced-air tiny-fin radiator). The Alphacool Cape Cora, with the open fin design, should work. I suspect that since the radiator will be warm, it will melt ice and such off of it, unless the coolant is already less than 32 F, and then, that would okay anyway, right? Snow, however, I'd be concerned about. Insulating and all that.
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post #8 of 10
Don't get stuff from Aquatuning - they are a bad company!

YOur best and simplest bet for passive cooling is, as said above, an Alphacool Cape Cora: http://www.alphacool.com/popup_image...ID/155/imgID/0 which you can mount on your case, like this:

http://www.million-dollar-pc.com/sys...c-a01-htpc.htm
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post #9 of 10
Hi. I'm in the process of designing a heavy-duty fanless wc system. I started with specs and thermal dynamics and learned some "rules of thumb" which have helped me a lot. First of all, airflow from fans is NOT necessary if you compensate for that. Normal radiators are designed for air flow from fans. If you buy or fabricate a radiator that passively radiates the heat into the air, you don't need fans. This is the approach I'm using. Remember the purpose of a radiator is to xfer heat out of the cooling medium and into the surrounding ambient air. The fact that your ambient air temps are so much lower than the lower 48 is a huge advantage. Warning, don't use airflow radiators without fans. Instead use radiators with external fins that are open to the surrounding air.

The system I'm in the process of designing uses a fanless radiator that I will build myself. It looks like the Zalman towers, but each tube is covered with vertical fins extruded from the aluminium tubes. They will also be oriented vertically so natural convection works for me as well. On paper, the system will be able to remove 600Watts of heat energy and sustain that.

Rules of thumb:

1. The more cooling medium you use the longer it takes to heat up. So the bigger the radiator the better.

2. The more (external) surface area your radiator tubes have (including fins), the better and more heat it can dissipate.

3. The longer your tubes between the heat sources (CPU, GPU, etc.), the more heat lag there is in the system. Mitigate this with higher flow rates or bigger tubing (consider 1/2" ID).

You know, I just thought of something. Since you're in Alaska, have you ever considered building a geothermal WC system? You may be able to save some money if you used your "cool" ground as your radiator!

Advantages:
- No fans needed
- No noise
- Easy to build. Do you own a shovel biggrin.gif ?
- Virtually out of sight (except for the input/output tubes).
- Status and bragging rights. I don't know of anyone else who has built a geothermal cooling system for their computer. thumb.gif


Disadvantages:
- Not mobile. It stays where it's put.
- Necessary to use bigger tubing to compensate for the distance between computer and geothermal radiator.
- A bigger pump would be needed.

Wow! I'm excited! Let us know what you decided.

mhumm2
- You would need a lot more coolant than a conventional system would need.
post #10 of 10
You have just answered a three year old thread. rolleyes.gif

Thread locked.
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