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So Apparently I should have a UPS power thing - Page 4

post #31 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by KG363 View Post
Then why does everyone suggest a UPS? Is it just misinformation or am I misunderstanding what they are saying
For the exact same reason why so many *knew* Saddam had WMDs. Most eyes glaze over as soon as the numbers arrive.

View its spec numbers. Hundreds of joules. How does that hundreds of joules absorb surges that are hundreds of thousands of joules? It doesn't. But with near zero joules, the UPS manufacturer can hype Surge Protection in capital letters. Most anything can be claimed in sales brochures. Then those who would "know without first learning" hype that surge protection to friends. Near zero surge protection becomes 100% surge protection. Myth exist when people do not demand numbers with each answer. No numbers is the first indication he is probably lying.

pez said, "protects against surges, brown outs, and spikes much better than a regular surge protector". No numbers. UPS manufacturer specs do not say that. In fact the protector circuit inside a UPS is a near zero version of same found in a power strip. So why does he say the UPS is better? Why does he not know this? Most are educated by hearsay - never demand numbers. Eyes glaze over with each number. He promotes the myth. A perfect example of why that UPS myth is so popular.

He does not post numbers. A first indication of a lie.

Second, most people always see solutions mostly in terms of what they see. See that lightning rod on a building? It provides no protection. Protection is provided by the earth ground it connects to. But most only see a lightning rod - not earth ground. Then assume the lightning rod is protection. More junk science reasoning so common. So many use observation alone; fail to first learn the underlying facts. Even after taught in 2nd grade what a lightning rod does, it is amazing how many forget about the only thing that makes a lightning rod effective - earth ground. Forgotten because they do not observe it.

Your computer is not 100% protected. All electronics are at risk - including less robust items such as dimmer switches and bathroom GFCIs. How often are those destroyed by a surge? Even those appliances contain serious surge protection. Your only concern is the rare transient that occurs typically once every seven years. That may overwhelm protection in appliances. And that would pass right through a typical UPS.

How often do you have destructive transients? Neighborhood history over the past ten years is relevant. How often do you replace clock radios, smoke detectors, and the dishwasher? Myths claim surges occur hourly. Notice long lines in hardware stores to replace timer switches and door bells. All appliances contain serious protection. Your concern is a surge that might happen once every seven year. Notice – numbers provided.
Edited by westom - 6/8/10 at 9:43am
post #32 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by KG363 View Post
This one that cr1 recommended has built in power surge protection. So would it be the best of both worlds?
Looks good
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post #33 of 58
Thread Starter 
Can anyone confirm if westom is right? I hope he is because that would save me some money.

And you seem to be very knowledgeable on this. Do you know it from personal research, school, a job...? Just curious
post #34 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by KG363 View Post
whatever keeps my system safe. We have lots of storms and power outages. My understanding is that data loss and hardware failure come from sudden shutdown, but I may be wrong. I really don't know what I need, that's why I made this thread
You don't need a UPS. A sudden loss of power won't hurt any modern components, and you won't lose any data (other than what you haven't saved, of course) unless you are overriding certain features like-write buffer flushing on your drives.

A decent surge suppressor will be fine, if your goal is simply to protect your hardware.

If you want to have enough time after a power outage to save documents/games/whatever, then get a UPS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KG363 View Post
So I'm fine the way I am? My PSU can take care of anything that mother nature throws at me? lol that's good to hear

Then why does everyone suggest a UPS? Is it just misinformation or am I misunderstanding what they are saying
I'd highly recommend a decent surge protector, but you certainly do not need a UPS. You do not want to just rely on the PSU. If the PSU blows, you are at the very least out a PSU, if not other components. A decent surge protector is a cheap layer of protection, even if it's hit with a surge that takes it out, chances are it's the only thing you lose, and it's a hell of a lot easer to replace a surge protector than to pull a dead PSU, test everything connected to it, then replace it.

I didn't know everyone recommended a UPS, as that's really just silly for most users. I'm siding with westom in this.
Edited by Blameless - 6/8/10 at 10:01am
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post #35 of 58
I say it is a tad bit subjective. My opinion is that a ups is not need if you are ok with your pc powering off when you have a brown out or spike. Voltage regulator is suggested and a surge surpressor is the last choice I would make.

Surpresser works fine But a regulator regulates the voltages going into your PC, so when you get a spike the regulator kicks in and provides you with safe voltages so you save your PSU and other hardware.

A UPS is just a nice luxurious item to have just in case the inevitable happens, in my opinion a good $30 suppressor should work just as well as a UPS. However my UPS has a suppressor and battery back up with a voltage regulator. So in sense i get all three.

I have not read any claims or see any claims the the internals of UPS's are superior to Suppressor so westom may have a point. Unless someone wants to start cracking theirs open and do a comparison test, the claim of UPS is better than a good suppressor is very subjective.

However i stick by my idea of a voltage regulator is what you need. If you don't want to put out $100+, due to my belief is that even if you have a suppressor they don't act a quick to stop the spike. While a voltage regulator always corrects the voltage coming from the socket, to safe ranges.

http://www.buy.com/prod/apc-line-r-6.../10346308.html
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post #36 of 58
Thread Starter 
so which do I need. I'm getting confused. I know the UPS is unnecessary.
Surge Protector, Suppressor, or Voltage regulator?
post #37 of 58
Hehe, ok just what is your budget, are you ok with your pc powering off during a brown out?

Surge Protector, Suppressor are the same thing.

What i would due is to find a protector for cheap
http://www.harriscomm.com/catalog/images/IT-SURGE.jpg
like this

buy a voltage regulator and plug that into that surge protector. Get double protection.
http://www.amazon.com/APC-LE600-Auto...6017618&sr=8-3
free shipping comes to $40 flat
Edited by lilraver018 - 6/8/10 at 10:21am
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post #38 of 58
I agree that a decent surge suppressor is generally adequate protection.

However, I also live in South Florida, and it thunderstorms on-and-off all summer.

The most common, and frequent power outages occur multiple times, and generally last from 1-5 seconds, and may even occur if the storm is miles away, causing a computer to reboot each time.

When I lived in the north, a UPS was a waste of money.

In Florida, in the summer, I would not be without one.

It's a personal preference, I choose UPS because the constant rebooting is annoying...

If I didn't need to save data, and didn't care about rebooting throughout the summer, I'd go with just a surge suppressor...
Edited by cr1 - 6/8/10 at 11:21am
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post #39 of 58
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cr1 View Post
I agree that a decent surge suppressor is generally adequate protection.

However, I also live in South Florida, and it thunderstorms on-and-off here all summer.

The most common, and frequent power outages happen multiple times, and usually last mostly from 1-5 seconds, and even occur even if the storm is miles away.

When I lived in the north, a UPS was a waste of money.

In Florida, in the summer, I would not be without one.

It's a personal preference, I choose UPS because the constant rebooting is annoying...

If i didn't need to save data, and didn't care about rebooting throughout the summer, I'd go with just a surge suppressor...
It is annoying but not annoying enough to spend $130 on it. That's why I will end up buying a protector/suppressor/regulator
post #40 of 58
Surge protector/supressor are just different names for the same thing.

I'm using one of these: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-202-_-Product

There are certainly fancier models if you are inclined to pay more, but this basic protect is sufficient for me. There is nothing going into my system that doesn't pass through a basic protector first, so I don't need extra ports.

Anyway, when it comes to multiple power outages in a short span of time, just have your motherboard set not to try to turn the system back on in the case of AC failure, then turn off the PSU/power strip until the storm or whatever is over.
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