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So Apparently I should have a UPS power thing - Page 5

post #41 of 58
Thread Starter 
That's probably what I'll end up getting. Thanks a lot.
post #42 of 58
I was going to do the surpressor ----> to regulator route.

But i found this
http://www.amazon.com/CyberPower-CP1.../dp/B000QZ3UG0

for 60 dollars on ebay, slightly used but works perfectly.
Cash seems tight for you so definitely just do the suppressor---> regulator route.

I hoped i helped.
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post #43 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilraver018 View Post
However i stick by my idea of a voltage regulator is what you need. If you don't want to put out $100+, due to my belief is that even if you have a suppressor they don't act a quick to stop the spike. While a voltage regulator always corrects the voltage coming from the socket, to safe ranges.
What safe ranges? Again my point: the numbers. Posted previously were numbers:
Quote:
Also required - voltages can drop so low that incandescent bulbs dim to 40% intensity. That is ideal voltage to a computer. And that is harmful voltage to your refrigerator. Voltage regulation inside every computer power supply must be so good that bulbs can dim to 40% - as required even by Intel specs. But if voltage drops below 5%, then refrigerators, air conditioners, dishwashers, and the furnace are at risk.
Any regulation required by a computer is performed inside the computer. What happens when incandescent bulbs dim to well less than 40% intensity? The computer powers off.

Low voltage causing damage is a popular myth. Yes, to motorized appliance. No, to any electronics. An early 1970 international design standard had this expression - in capital letters - in the section for all voltages from normal down to zero. "No Damage Region". A popular myth is that low voltage causes damage. One example of what we do to new designs without any damage - to just verify they work 100% even at low voltages: "Motheboard Problem? Post Problem?" on 7 Sept 2001 by Tom MacIntyre
> We operate everything on an isolated variac, which means that I can control the voltage
> going into the unit I am working on from about 150 volts down to zero. ...
> ... they can and will regulate with very low voltages on the AC line in; the best I've seen was
> a TV which didn't die until I turned the variac down to 37 VAC! A brownout wouldn't have even
> affected the picture on that set.

Die as in shut off - not fail.

A hardware destructive transient that can overwhelm protection inside appliances occurs typically once every seven years. Informed homeowners earth one 'whole house' protector. Then destructive transients (and lesser ones) are made irrelevant. Do not overwhelm protection that exists already inside every appliance.
post #44 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by IrDewey View Post
You shouldn't need a UPS, just a surge protector. A UPS is only useful for power outages.
This.


A ups is only needed for low power dips, power outages and when you need emergency run time in order to shut things down properly.

A high quality surge suppressor will protect your gear from lightning strikes and power surges that would normally harm your computer (or any other electronic devices). All of the good quality surge suppressors come with a lifetime guarantee for equipment damage. Mine is a $25,000 coverage and it will protect my modem, router, phone line, cable line and a couple of computers.

To be honest though, if the house has a proper grounding setup and a lightening rod, the surge protector is just extra insurance.
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post #45 of 58
Thread Starter 
@ westom
Do you still recommend some kind of surge protector or is it all useless?

btw, how do you know so much about this?
Edited by KG363 - 6/8/10 at 10:43am
post #46 of 58
Yes i would like to know also how you know all this fact, please provide us with some numbers and some links.
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post #47 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post
Surge protector/supressor are just different names for the same thing.

I'm using one of these: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-202-_-Product
So why do 'whole house' protectors earth directly lightning strikes and remain functional. How does 350 joules (never more than 700 joules) absorb a surge that is hundreds of thousands of joules?

Take a $3 power strip. Add some ten cent protector parts. That sells for $7 in a grocery store, is that APC protector for $25, and is the same circuit selling in Monster Cable for $150.

If it absorbs too many joules, what have most fire departments seen at some point?
http://www.hanford.gov/rl/?page=556&parent=554
http://www.ddxg.net/old/surge_protectors.htm
http://www.zerosurge.com/HTML/movs.html
http://tinyurl.com/3x73ol
entitled "Surge Protector Fires"
http://www3.cw56.com/news/articles/local/BO63312/
http://www.nmsu.edu/~safety/news/les...tectorfire.htm
http://www.pennsburgfireco.com/fullstory.php?58339
An infrequent problem described by the fire marshal.

Undersized protectors are designed to disconnect as fast as possible from the surge. Abandon the appliance to that energy. Sometimes they do not disconnect fast enough.

Disconnecting gets the product promoted. A surge too small to overwhelm protection inside all appliance can fail. That gets the naive to assume, "My protectors sacrificed itself to save my computer." Reality: computer had to save itself. Protector was so grossly undersized as to fail - so that other will promote it.

See that $25,000 warranty? Read the fine print exemptions. It is not honored. For example, one of APCs so many exemptions said any protector from any other manufacturer volds this APC warranty. GM has the best warranties. Does that provide GM superior to Honda and Toyota? Of course not. The largest warranty is ofte the indicator of the worst products. Read the fine print to learn why so many had their claims denied.

Effective protection means the protector never fails. That nobody knew a surge even existed. That is why informed homeowners earth one 'whole house' protector. Sized to earth even direct lightning strikes - and remain functional. Even sold in Lowes and Home Depot for less than $50. Which is an effective protection that costs about $1 per protected appliance.
Edited by westom - 6/8/10 at 10:49am
post #48 of 58
BTW: Where I live we lose power several times a year (High winds, trees falling, mudslides, etc) and I used to have all of my systems on a UPS. Never really needed them since all my critical stuff is backed up. I now only run surge suppressors and have never had any sort of issues. Of course we only get a real lightning storm once or twice a year, but my house has a lightning rod, and 4 different grounding rods to protect the internal house wiring.
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post #49 of 58
Here you go.
post #50 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by KG363 View Post
btw, how do you know so much about this?
Multiple decades of design experience. And designing systems that took direct lightning strikes without damage (and a few educational experiences where damage did occur). And learning from the so many others who did this stuff. For example, Polyphaser's app notes are highly regarded in the industry:
http://www.polyphaser.com/technical_notes.aspx

US Air Force Instruction 32-1065
> 15. Surge Protection.
> 15.1. Entering or exiting metallic power, intrusion detection, communication antenna,
> and instrumentation lines must have surge protection sized for lightning surges to reduce
> transient voltages to a harmless level. Install the surge protection as soon as practical where
> the conductor enters the interior of the facility. Devices commonly used for this include metal oxide
> varistors, gas tube arresters, and transzorbs.

Planning guide for Sun Server room
> Section 6.4.7 Lightning Protection:
> Lightning surges cannot be stopped, but they can be diverted. The plans for the data center
> should be thoroughly reviewed to identify any paths for surge entry into the data center. Surge
> arrestors can be designed into the system to help mitigate the potential for lightning damage
> within the data center. These should divert the power of the surge by providing a path to
> ground for the surge energy.

To do this stuff, we had to learn this stuff including autopsies to discover why our designs failed. Any plug-in protector is nothing more than a profit center. Phrases such as 'divert', 'energy dissipation', and 'single point earth ground' are essential. How to identify a scam protector. 1) It has no dedicated wire for that always short (ie 'less than 10 foot') connection to earth ground. 2) Manufacturer avoids all discussion about earthing.

A case study on how damage to a radio station was eliminated. They used no plug-in protectors because a solution was needed. They only fixed what always provides protection - the earthing:
http://www.copper.org/applications/e.../nebraska.html
Edited by westom - 6/8/10 at 11:22am
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