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[THINQ] BIOS will be dead in three years - Page 13

post #121 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
A workaround which wastes resources, hurts performance, takes extra steps to implement, and does not always work.... like BIOS.
To be fair, if he is running DOS games on modern hardware he probably isn't hurting for resources

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaMirrorLink View Post
im sorry i like using my sound card?
Thats great and all, but at some point we have to move on. Motherboards don't have ISA slots anymore, and PCI is next.
    
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post #122 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daney View Post
I MUCH prefer BIOS over UEFI I hope this doesn't happen (soon if at all).
it is inevitable. BIOS' cannot boot from 2TB partitions, and that will, for most consumers, eventually force the change.
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post #123 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opeth07 View Post
Why would people be against making something more intuitive/modern when it serves a practical purpose to do so?
http://www.overclock.net/9619328-post32.html will find your answer
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post #124 of 166
If this is anything like a Mac's EFI, then god help us all.

I tried triple booting Mac/Win/Nix and failed miserably.
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post #125 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by voice View Post
What a load of elitist bullcrap. First of all having a GUI is not a waste of resources, you have the resources there, you are paying the cost of using them (in power) so why not actually use them?

Second if you don't want a GUI, guess what, you don't have to have one.

Your argument is basically hinges on that you don't like the idea of computers being easier to use and for more people to understand them.

Well a while ago overclocking was done through jumpers on the motherboard, and when the first motherboard came with overclocking ability in the BIOS the elitists back then complained then that it made it "too easy" and would consider you and I how you consider everyone who doesn't understand computers to the degree you or I do, i.e. they would view us as, to quote you, "noobs".

Computers are tools. The best tools are the ones that are the easiest to use.
Yes, I have the resources quite easily, but it's wasting them because a GUI is a completely and utterly useless add on to the boot process, the entire point (Apart from GPT and boot drives above 2Tb) is because its faster than BIOS, but don't let that stop you from loading it down with a GUI that only slows down the people that are meant to be in there in the first place.


And I do want computers being easier to use, but mucking around with the BIOS settings? Well, so far from what I've seen of the general population, I'm surprised we don't have warning labels on hammers saying "WARNING: HURTS IF YOU HIT YOURSELF"

The difference between this and the jumper vs no jumper thing is the small computer outlets that use brand name parts AND the settings being selected in the BIOS for a socket that had many, many different speed grades and types of CPU (Socket 7), if it had appeared now there wouldn't be much of a problem, I bet.

I don't have a problem with UEFI, but until the general populace proves themselves capable of doing something as simple as installing a program without help and wondering what the "Your computer is too slow" error means, I disagree with making a part that can break a computer user friendly, do Toyota, Ford, etc make the Engine Bay and the electronics that control it all user friendly? Only with the bits they need to see, the rest isn't user friendly and is not a smart idea to touch, there is a reason for that.

You don't make a crane easier to use for the general public, they're not meant to be inside that, the crane is a tool too, or do you want untrained people to fix your car? Do you want them to maintain the aircraft you might fly on? There is a reason why we get trained to do certain things, it has a lot to do with the saying "Jack of all trades, master of none", meaning we can never be good at everything, just because my Grandmother was a great nurse and knows a lot about the human body, doesn't mean she'll get how a UEFI will work, and if she got into it by accident or something would probably manage to try to boot off her printer or something.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mothergoose729 View Post
The bios has been updated to accomodate technology changes many times before. I read not to long ago that major motherboard vendors and HDD manufacturers are currently working together to develop a new standard for the future. I don't know much about GPT, but I can't see why EFI would be a better candidate.

Post times vary between bios and boards. If it where a major design effort a <3 second post time is probably very achievable with a reasonable number of addon cards. If SMART and other HD checks were cut down or disabled for SSD drives then that could cut down on post times as well. SSD's rarely need it, afterall.

Maybe I am just not getting it but what exactly makes EFI so much more appealing then the typical bios? Point and click functionality will take more time to load do to the increased complexity, and I can't understand how it would be inherently more efficient then a new attack on the traditional text based bios. Some parts of the PC could use a face lift, but I like my white text on blue and black background thank you very much.
Compare Windows to Linux, Windows is a bunch of old, outdated stuff inside a kernel that keeps being updated, etc, it's full of unneeded code that was forgotten, heaps of patches to make it all work together, etc, whereas Linux has as much bloat as possible removed, you don't need a patch to get the latest drivers working and updates won't break your computer, plus most of the unneeded code was removed long ago.

I do agree with putting a GUI on it defeating the purpose, yay, I get 14second total boot time! But if I want to overclock, it takes much longer because I'm moving one hand from the mouse to the keyboard, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sLowEnd View Post
USB 3.0 can do interrupt instead of just polling. (But we still need to have USB 3.0 keyboards first lol)
And native USB3 on chipset, the extra latency from the PCIe controller would defeat the purpose of going interrupt over polling.

And lets hope when USB3 is standard, all keyboard makers do interrupt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urufu_Shinjiro View Post
All of you out there saying they like BIOS as it is have NO IDEA WHAT BIOS REALLY IS! BIOS is NOT the text based interface you see when you press DEL on boot. BIOS is the code that is actually used to initialize the hardware and start the software. BIOS is invisible, that text based thing you use to OC IS A GUI, it is not BIOS. BIOS is a terribly complicated patchwork of code that is so old most people reading this thread were stains in their daddies underwear when BIOS came into use. Classic arguments from BIOS supporters who know nothing; "BIOS is simple and effective", no, BIOS is more complicated than you can possibly imagine and it is most likely the single LEAST effective thing in your pc, "If it isn't broke don't fix it", news for ya buddy, BIOS is broke, within the year there will be harddrives that will BIOS will not be able to boot from, BIOS only works because coders with far more skill than you have cobbled together patches and outright hacks to fool BIOS into doing things it shouldn't be capable of, "I like the way it looks now" as said before, BIOS is invisible, but if you like the text based interface then you can change UEFI to look like that.
This is true, however they're missing the entire point as to why giving it a GUI is a bad idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
Thank you. Basically, all argument against UEFI boil down to.... "I want to be elitest."
Once again, are you expected to know exactly how a motor and your cars computer work? Do they on purposely make it harder for mechanics to use and fix just so someone like you can fix it if they want? Why don't we make aircraft easier to fly too?

Not everyone is good at everything, leave the computers to the people who know what they're doing and let the noobs only go in there under instruction of one of those people, it may be elitist, but its true, I don't want to work in customer support and hear a load of "MY MANUAL SAID THIS UEFI THING IS ON MY COMPUTER SO I WENT INTO IT AND HAD A LOOK AND NOW MY COMPUTER WON'T BOOT FIX IT"

Plus, if an entire point is removing bloat from the BIOS area of the computer, why add a GUI? What does having a GUI help? It doesn't help me overclock, it doesn't help my friends dad fix peoples computers, it doesn't help my aunt keep the programs running on IBMs servers working well, it only helps the people that aren't meant to be in there in the first place, hence, its bloat.
Going back to the car analogy, you don't take out most of the stuff in an engine just so you can fit instructions on every surface in case someones mad aunt from Mongolia decides she wants to take it apart for curiosity's sake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
If you want to be elitist, then go back to using OS command line only.
Oh, I'm fine with people using Windows, if they break it, then its easily fixable.

But lets play an assumption game here.

Lets assume I have a 5 year old son, right? Lets assume that one day, while Daddys at work, he decides to use Daddys computer, lets say that while its booting up, he sees "Press Delete to enter UEFI" and he does so, lets say that he then gets confused and looks at all the settings, etc and then manages to boot the computer at 2.4v, killing the CPU pretty damn fast.

Yeah, making the BIOS area of the computer more user friendly is a great idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
Who said anything about Windows?

While the command line powerful... often a GUI is faster/easier. (I work in SUN and AIX UNIX so I quite familiar with it.)
For an operating system, yes, GUI is faster and easier only because you don't have to type out where you want to go and what you want to do with winword.exe, but the CMOS is not a command line, using the keyboard with options like that is much faster than using the mouse + keyboard, try typing with one hand vs two and tell me you don't see a difference.

And why does the BIOS area of the computer need to be easier to use? You don't make the engine bay of a car easier to use so noobs can fix their own engines, you don't make the cockpit of a plane easier to use so the average noob can fly around, just because we find it easy to tell what option would break something, doesn't mean that everyone will, I'd go to you if I had a computer problem (And didn't know how to fix it myself), but that doesn't mean I would if I had a problem with my air conditioner, would I? Same thing, my mum is great at accounting, but she is only average at best with computers, I wouldn't trust her in the CMOS/UEFI/whatever.
    
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post #126 of 166
This thread is full of fail. 99% of people who are against the change, have absolutely no clue on what BIOS really is. Yet, they still whine.

Plus, lol at 5y old soon analogy. There is no such picture yet, that could express this level off facepalm.

Moderators should issue warns for stupidity.
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post #127 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
Who said anything about Windows?

While the command line powerful... often a GUI is faster/easier. (I work in SUN and AIX UNIX so I quite familiar with it.)
Can't beat BASH. Fact
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post #128 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daney View Post
Might not be a good reason but the UEFI seems too "noob", I prefer looking at a blue screen filled with text. That's what I love about technology, the time when everything becomes all GUI and images, I won't love IT as much.
your a noob
post #129 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clipze View Post
your a noob
no u cant spel lolololol
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post #130 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by DjiXas View Post
This thread is full of fail. 99% of people who are against the change, have absolutely no clue on what BIOS really is. Yet, they still whine.

Plus, lol at 5y old soon analogy. There is no such picture yet, that could express this level off facepalm.

Moderators should issue warns for stupidity.
Just because you've never had kids use your computer, doesn't mean no-one has, once I found a kid in the BIOS on the schools computer before the techie put a password on them, he didn't do anything in there because it was obviously not something he should have been in, whereas with a GUI I'm pretty sure he would have checked out what it is simply because it looks like something he should be in.
    
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