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[BBC] Google accused of criminal intent over StreetView data - Page 3

post #21 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by DataMatrix View Post
What if I was to develop a similar device to collect this data but say hide the device that does it in the back seat?

I could collect all this data and then publish it via a torrent... It's the fault of the people stupid enough to leave their WiFi unsecured.
Yes, but if you got caught you'd still be going to jail. No jury in the world would accept, "Well, they should've secured their network!" as a defense strategy.
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post #22 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coma View Post
No, no, no. That's what they WANTED to do, according to them.

In reality, they also recorded any data for the few seconds they were tuned in (again, according to them).

It's more like, you walk around your neighborhood looking for open windows. When you see a window, you say "Hey, that window is open." and you look inside. And then you grab your video camera and take 2 seconds of video.

Oftentimes, there'll be nothing there and you'll have a video of an empty room. But sometimes, you'll happen upon something personal or confidential.

A breach of privacy is a breach of privacy even if it's only for 2 seconds.
Ehhh.... honestly I'm sure Google with all their fortune can prove that the information they collected is absolutely harmless. I highly doubt that they actually collected legitimately sensitive crap like saved photos/videos/documents. I can imagine that all they really collected was maybe... a tree of their network devices and folders maybe? Like say:

Network X has:
Shared network folder (which includes shared subfolders)
-Vacation videos folder
-Baby videos folder
-Porn videos folder

I highly doubt that in the seconds that they were in range of the Wi-Fi areas that they were able to obtain any actual files. Even if they did, it is very easily plausible that it was a coding fault. They probably didn't intend for their software to collect this unencrypted data. Google had no INTENT at committing a crime with this information, which is what I and many others are defending Google about. We don't care about the rest; we understand that collecting this data is (still arguable) illegal. Google did not have the intentions to commit crime with this data like these sources/accusations are saying.

Anyone who put these files in a shared folder obviously wanted to do it. You can't just 'accidentally' share your personal folders. It's actually a bit of a pain to share folders on a network for someone who doesn't know how to do it. Someone with enough knowledge to share their folders over a network should most definitely have enough knowledge to secure their network as well, knocking this whole debate against Google back to square 1: if you don't want to be seen, conceal yourself.
Edited by Stealth Pyros - 6/9/10 at 1:14pm
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post #23 of 42
I love all the speculations of equivalent scenarios!

Regardless of legality (seems illegal to me--the storage of data at least), it is, at the very least, a bit unethical and quite douchebagish to do this, whether it is the fault of google, or the fault of their un-named engineer. I'm sure the engineer was thinking they could somehow benefit from this. On the other hand, if people think google was unaware of this, then it's a naive perception of google given how rich the data could have been regarding demographics. I mean, google gets a ton of revenue from advertisements. Knowing how to perfectly target demographic groups with specific advertisements is a nice idea to keep around...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth Pyros View Post
Ehhh.... honestly I'm sure Google with all their fortune can prove that the information they collected is absolutely harmless. I highly doubt that they actually collected legitimately sensitive crap like saved photos/videos/documents. I can imagine that all they really collected was maybe... a tree of their network devices and folders maybe? Like say:

Network X has:
Shared network folder (which includes shared subfolders)
-Vacation videos folder
-Baby videos folder
-Porn videos folder

I highly doubt that in the seconds that they were in range of the Wi-Fi area that they were able to obtain any actual files.

Anyone who put these files in a shared folder obviously wanted to do it. You can't just 'accidentally' share your personal folders. It's actually a bit of a pain to share folders on a network for someone who doesn't know how to do it. Someone with enough knowledge to share their folders over a network should most definitely have enough knowledge to secure their network as well, knocking this whole debate against Google back to square 1: if you don't want to be seen, conceal yourself.
Quite the contrary. Having a "shared" folder does not imply free public access. It gets back to the question of if a window is left open, does it allow you free use of the building? Of course not--it's a private area.

And even if the information that was viewed and saved was, in fact, "harmless," it still doesn't make it legal. Just because someone left post-it notes on their private office desk with benign information on it doesn't allow or excuse you to look at them.
    
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post #24 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by guyladouche View Post
And even if the information that was viewed and saved was, in fact, "harmless," it still doesn't make it legal. Just because someone left post-it notes on their private office desk with benign information on it doesn't allow or excuse you to look at them.
I agree with what you said about the shared files still being personal files, and I do agree that private data is private data, whether it's sensitive or not.

My point is, why are they jumping to the conclusion that Google had criminal intentions? What if every bit of data that they collected was analyzed and we found that nothing at all is even anything that can be used criminally? I think this data needs to be confiscated and inspected. If a lot of sensitive data is present, sure, charge Google for criminal intentions. If nothing is present that can potentially be used for fraud/any other crime, Google deserves a slap on the wrist for invasion of privacy.
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post #25 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by flamingoyster View Post
Unless the Google employees were explicitly told to collect this data, I see no corruption here. It was almost certainly accidental, and while they should have had measures to prevent this, ***** happens, man.
I agree,**** happens. It is a possiblility,no denying that. However,following along w/ historical precedent (human history,not Google directly). The probability of it being accidental is small and the assumption isn't one we can afford to make.

Put into different but relavent terms. Why is it that people don't trust each other w/o proof via pictures,documentation,video or multiple independent witnesses? The reasoning is because people throughout our own personal history in our lifespans have proven that they are not to be trusted.

It starts as small inconsistencies,which makes us pay attention more and more as greater inconsistencies are found. Until the facts are found pointing to malevolent lies,that distrust inherently grows inside us. Why,because our experience w/ others,forms a predisposed disposition in which we can't afford but to assume the worst. History has taught us exactly that.
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post #26 of 42
There is one big difference to the window analogy people are making... Google didnt go and peek at a window, the window came flying to them and they pretty much where forced to look... (open) Wireless is exactly that, it's called broadcasting for a reason...
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post #27 of 42
my response is purely to OP's metaphor. and according to the article what google did is illegal, it doesnt matter if the wifi is open or closed you have no right to use someone else's wifi without their permission.

just cause my wifi is open, what right does google have to record that my wifi is open?
Edited by mz-n10 - 6/9/10 at 1:53pm
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post #28 of 42
I really really really doubt google did this on purpose.
post #29 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth Pyros View Post
All Google did was a query: "Hey, is your Wi-Fi network open? K... cool." Ridiculous. I'm sure Google doesn't give a rat's ass. In their eyes as well as the eyes of their billions of fans, they did nothing wrong. Even if it's on their dirty company records, it's like... their single criminal offense? Which they're not even guilty of.
Google saved payload data to disc. They didn't just check to see if the wireless connection was secure or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris++ View Post
There is one big difference to the window analogy people are making... Google didnt go and peek at a window, the window came flying to them and they pretty much where forced to look... (open) Wireless is exactly that, it's called broadcasting for a reason...
Google tuned in, separated they encrypted from the unencrypted, then saved the unencrypted data.
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post #30 of 42
I think the metaphor should go more like this: You go driving down the street. At each house you go by, people are throwing their TV's, Blue-Ray players, Mail, etc into YOUR car window. Would it then be considered illegal to not stop and give it back?

It is a legal issue that really hasn't been addressed properly to really know as of yet. In my opinion, using someone's Wi-Fi alone shouldn't be illegal(I do believe you should be responsible to secure it on that front). But if you use it do illegal things, then it should be. I'm not sure on Google's case though, it is still up for grabs really. They will probably settle or be fined a little is all.
Edited by Strat79 - 6/9/10 at 3:31pm
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