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post #51 of 115
a 25 million dollar cold plant produce 9 grams of liquid helium every second and use in excess of 25 KW of power , liquid helium is just for the show , it will never be an option and the price is always rising because we don't have a good efficient supply of helium except one reserve/storage in an old oil pocket in usa.

AND NO helium is the coldest even more then hydrogen , for complicated reason but it is.

mercury is so thick is will flow very badly and leave many turbulent aera where you don't have flow and they can overheat.
mercury have a thermal conductivity of 8,4 W/m*K ( silver is at 427 W/m*K and water is at 0,561 W/m*k) this mean of course it s better then water and dilatation is about the same too.
but it has a small small specific heat of 0,14 E 3 J/kg*K compare to 4,18 E 3 J/kg*K this mean your mercure takes 30 times less energy to heat up 1 degrees , meaning it have to flow considerably faster or it will accumulate heat and you need a bigger volume of coolant too , which is not pratical

and it s true the best heat dissipation is for carbon in diamond form , it s also the best insulation , and best of all it have a very very small dilatation coef. but it only exist in solid form would be hard to make flow biggrin.gif

mercury is used to pump air as vacuum pump, liquid ring mercury and some of the first good vacuum pump : mercury vapor jet , these are the pump that were used in accelerator and experiment in the manathan project
Edited by Ashuiegi - 4/8/13 at 2:31am
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post #52 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by altsanity View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fieldsweeper View Post

So why not use a diamond heat-sink, with diamond (hollow) tubing pumping liquid Hg.

+1 on the diamond heat-sink. Saw a documentary where they demonstrated that a thin film diamond plate conducted heat so well it could cut through ice using only the heat in your hand.... Insane stuff

But for transfer fluid, water. The only liquids that do well in terms of heat capacity is water and ammonia. Ammonia more as a refrigerant as it uses phase change in the cooling process(also the R-xxx refrigerants). The heat capacity is the measure of how much energy is required to increase the temperature of 1 gram material by 1 degree Kelvin. So even if you have a high heat transfer metalic fluid, it would take less energy to heat it up. The total heat capacity of the same loop using water would still be higher. The only practical way to overcome this is to use a lot more Hg, bigger res, bigger rads, longer loop.

Volumetric heat capacity of Mercury is lower than water (1.888 vs 4.18)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_capacity

-experience -> engineering thermodynamics.

You don't need to use liquid water, using a gas can be better, look at hydrogen, it has 3.5 times better transfer ability than water. just flow gas hydrogen thru it. (or liquid as it would not only be cold, but also have a better conductivity. (as the cooling medium)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsar View Post

Well if you want to use molten metal then Lead is always an option.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead-cooled_fast_reactor

A bit more complicated but it is plausible.

the Molten part makes your idea really backwards, that only works if the components are hot enough that its whats causing the lead to melt lol. in this case of Computers you would fry the cpu before you even turn the computer on. you must also not know much about chemistry since you seem to have failed to realize that liquid mercury is just that. it is the only metal that is a liquid at 1 atmosphere and "room" temp
and is itself not "molten" although TECHNICALLY it is molten because it's "melting" point is -38 degrees C, but boiling temp is 630 C so it is liquid for the widest range of all metals.
Quote:
Originally Posted by runs2far View Post

You would not gain much from exotic materials in the cooling loop because water is good enough at moving heat.
Having a loop that is better at transferring heat to the radiator will not gain a lot, because the important part is to get the heat out of the loop.

as I stated replying to first quote, you are not utilizing the full "cooling effect" of water as it doesn't have time to saturate with heat before it is pumped into radiator, so by using diamond heat sink, and water or gas hydrogen which has a a 3 fold increase in capacity. (of heat)


obv we are all speaking strictly hypothetically as more of a joke about the original post which was also kind of a joke as well. ( i hope) because the heating of it would release vapors etc its extreme toxicity not to mention that spilling any of it is extremely expensive to clean up (hazmat teams etc)
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post #53 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fieldsweeper View Post

damn wish i could edit these lol, not to mention the shear fact that mercury is 13 times more dense (heavy) also near impossible to pump without special pumps.( i believe) i think that more or less depends on viscosity, but density probably plays a role in that too. im not overly knowledgeable on fluid dynamics


Yup the whole point of what I was explaining in my 1st post was this, the idea is to use a ferrofluid with a higher heat capacity than mercury. As viscosity and heat capacity are the 2 only real problems of using liquid metals in a loop. An electromagnetic pump is the pump you would need to solve the flowrate problem (viscosity and weight aren't a problem anymore) and also needs to not expand too much with variance in temprature, and have a boiling point that works with normal room temperatures and CPU's.. Ill just make a thread precising this and gathering the info I posted in multiple places about this I guess.
post #54 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fieldsweeper View Post

You don't need to use liquid water, using a gas can be better, look at hydrogen, it has 3.5 times better transfer ability than water. just flow gas hydrogen thru it. (or liquid as it would not only be cold, but also have a better conductivity. (as the cooling medium)
the Molten part makes your idea really backwards, that only works if the components are hot enough that its whats causing the lead to melt lol. in this case of Computers you would fry the cpu before you even turn the computer on. you must also not know much about chemistry since you seem to have failed to realize that liquid mercury is just that. it is the only metal that is a liquid at 1 atmosphere and "room" temp
and is itself not "molten" although TECHNICALLY it is molten because it's "melting" point is -38 degrees C, but boiling temp is 630 C so it is liquid for the widest range of all metals.
as I stated replying to first quote, you are not utilizing the full "cooling effect" of water as it doesn't have time to saturate with heat before it is pumped into radiator, so by using diamond heat sink, and water or gas hydrogen which has a a 3 fold increase in capacity. (of heat)


obv we are all speaking strictly hypothetically as more of a joke about the original post which was also kind of a joke as well. ( i hope) because the heating of it would release vapors etc its extreme toxicity not to mention that spilling any of it is extremely expensive to clean up (hazmat teams etc)

At no point did I say that Mercury was Molten. I said that it is plausible to use molten metals. We are not discussing regular cooling here, it is a theoretical discussion about dissipating large amounts of heat.

Hence why we were not talking about water.
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post #55 of 115
All metal have low specific heat which is bad for a coolant.
it slightly better in liquid from but it still way too bad to use as coolant.
in case of pump failure you would fry everything because the temp would rise between 20 and 50 time faster then with water.
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post #56 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fieldsweeper View Post

as I stated replying to first quote, you are not utilizing the full "cooling effect" of water as it doesn't have time to saturate with heat before it is pumped into radiator, so by using diamond heat sink, and water or gas hydrogen which has a a 3 fold increase in capacity. (of heat)

I'm not arguing against improving the cooling setup. I just don't see a benefit from the hypothetical idea of replacing the water in a water cooling setup.
If everything in a existing loop could work with mercury, the benefit would be very small, as water is very good at moving heat from the CPU/GPU to the radiator.
There will be a bigger gain from improving the movement of heat to the loop at the GPU/CPU and from the loop at the radiator rather than the fluid transporting the heat.

BTW, liquid metal cooling has been used and abandoned again:
http://hexus.net/tech/news/cpu/16980-danamics-gives-lm10-cooler-focussing-liquid-metal-products-instead/
Edited by runs2far - 4/8/13 at 2:51am
post #57 of 115
Liquid Metal has been used with great success with large amounts of heat.

But I didn't realize we were talking about consumer grade computing, so with that I withdraw.
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post #58 of 115
Liquid Metal has been used with great success with large amounts of heat.

But I didn't realize we were talking about consumer grade computing, so with that I withdraw.
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post #59 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashuiegi View Post

a 25 million dollar cold plant produce 9 grams of liquid helium every second and use in excess of 25 KW of power , liquid helium is just for the show , it will never be an option and the price is always rising because we don't have a good efficient supply of helium except one reserve/storage in an old oil pocket in usa.

AND NO helium is the coldest even more then hydrogen , for complicated reason but it is.

mercury is so thick is will flow very badly and leave many turbulent aera where you don't have flow and they can overheat.
mercury have a thermal conductivity of 8,4 W/m*K ( silver is at 427 W/m*K and water is at 0,561 W/m*k) this mean of course it s better then water and dilatation is about the same too.
but it has a small small thermal capacity of 0,14 E 3 J/kg*K compare to 4,18 E 3 J/kg*K this mean your mercure takes 30 times less energy to heat up 1 degrees , meaning it have to flow considerably faster or it will accumulate heat and you need a bigger volume of coolant too , which is not pratical

and it s true the best heat dissipation is for carbon in diamond form , it s also the best insulation , and best of all it have a very very small dilatation coef. but it only exist in solid form would be hard to make flow biggrin.gif

mercury is used to pump air as vacuum pump, liquid ring mercury and some of the first good vacuum pump : mercury vapor jet , these are the pump that were used in accelerator and experiment in the manathan project

GOD you speak such bad english I had to read what you typed twice. 1) why "AND NO" never mentioned hydrogen lmao, I was talking about liquid helium, as the coldest liquid, it does not take that big of plant / energy to make it, you can by it from most welding stores/ shops (some anyways) it is not cheap but it isnt THAT expensive, it is only 14 dollars per liter, and as CPU cooling goes, LN2 is a hobby type quick runs, so using liquid helium wouldn't be completely out of the question. oh and you can get Helium liquifiers ranging from 3550 liters to 3500 liters per hour, from some suppliers and i am sure there are even larger ones out there.
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post #60 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashuiegi View Post

All metal have low specific heat which is bad for a coolant.
it slightly better in liquid from but it still way too bad to use as coolant.
in case of pump failure you would fry everything because the temp would rise between 20 and 50 time faster then with water.

Ya its a simple as physics balancing the equation, the faster something can move heat, the faster it heats up lol, therefore it gets saturated with heat quicker. and obv metals are a prime example of that.
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