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Sizing the Load??? Any Engineers Out There

post #1 of 14
Thread Starter 
First, any rules for thumb for Heat of Rejection for a system? I planned on using the size of a large power supply (600W = 2050 BTU/h)

Second, How to Size the Radiator, I cant find any ratings for the radiators like BTU/H or Pressure Drop ?

Third, CPU Block Ratings

Forth, and the Biggie, where to start when sizing the pump. There are no ratings for the radiators or CPU Blocks. What GPM and Pressure is required, you dont want to eroded the radiator nor use to high or low of a pressure. If the pressure is low flash pockets may form, to high and lines could burst and leaks form.

Has any body ever measued any of this? What is the heat of rejection from a Loaded 955EE or something hotter? What about a high end GPU? Everyone seems the through parts in and I havent found any good to justify.

Tuning a system like that would be dificult you would need variable pumps and fans, and finding a curve and programing it to run automaticlly would be a bear of a job. I guess that is why I have yet to find a good kit for sale that is preengineered.
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post #2 of 14
I have never heard of heat of rejection....

Are you talking about thermal conductivity, or specific heat?
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post #3 of 14
Hi Guy,

All that info is pretty easily available. I'd rather help you learn to fish, than just hand you rehashed answers that have been done well.

I suggest you look at the "stickies" (the threads at the top of the page). Then, once you have some basic understanding and terminology, use search (here, and Google) to investigate the terms you'd like to know more about.

I hope this seems more helpful than rude--it's just that all this has already been covered nicely. I'm glad to help with any further questions.

Fortunately, your concerns about tuning a system are unwarranted, and things are much simpler than that. There is no need for automation, for cooling systems are stable, and will find their own equilibrium.

If you don't want to spend the time learning all this, a kit is a great way to go (donning asbestos underwear ) The Thermaltake BigWater kits are a good way to go for cheap, and if you want better the Swiftech kits are nice.

Welcome, and have fun!
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post #4 of 14
Thread Starter 
I was ready to right a reply on Fishing but I will subside. I finally found the info I was looking for on Switech's Site, I had read all the posts and was disipointed to see so many people shooting from the hip when it comes to sizing. I would guess that many people spend to much money and not enough time tring to get the energy balance optimized, not to mention componets sized 3-4 times larger than nessacary.
Now I will start Sizing to build a Glycol cascade system in which I can hit temps below ambient but not so overboard to go below dew point. I have a really problem with water in the case, and modest say 40F at load would be great and the key is to have it all in one medium case.
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post #5 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsddcd
I was ready to right a reply on Fishing but I will subside. I finally found the info I was looking for on Switech's Site, I had read all the posts and was disipointed to see so many people shooting from the hip when it comes to sizing. I would guess that many people spend to much money and not enough time tring to get the energy balance optimized, not to mention componets sized 3-4 times larger than nessacary.
Now I will start Sizing to build a Glycol cascade system in which I can hit temps below ambient but not so overboard to go below dew point. I have a really problem with water in the case, and modest say 40F at load would be great and the key is to have it all in one medium case.
Anything under ambient will produce water condensation.
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post #6 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by pauldovi
Anything under ambient will produce water condensation.
That's a good rule of thumb. More precisely, any temperature below the dew point will produce condensation, and the dew point is generally below ambient.

For example, out here in the desert, the dew point is way below ambient.

In practical terms, that means that a system of radiators and waterblocks is safe from condensation. But a system that cools below ambient (generally by using thermo-electrics or phase change) needs special precautions against condensation

(Paul already knew that, but others may find it useful.)

Sorry to split hairs, but some might find that useful or interesting.

Hope this helps!
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post #7 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsddcd
I would guess that many people spend to much money and not enough time tring to get the energy balance optimized, not to mention componets sized 3-4 times larger than nessacary.
I submit that you may well be right, but one person's "larger than necessary" is another's "rockin' good time". Most people here are into cooling and PCs the way some are into custom cars--performance and uniqueness are ends in themselves.

A nice thing about "passive" (ambient or above, using pumps, waterblocks, and radiators--is there a better term than "passive"?) if that excess capacity rarely does any damage.

I asked you to learn the ropes first (how to fish), because you would quickly find that a number of the concerns you listed are unnecessary. No offense intended.

Hope this helps.
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post #8 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsddcd
...and modest say 40F at load would be great and the key is to have it all in one medium case.
You can get 40C load with air cooling.

Wait, you say 40F load... Is your room really that cold?

Look up evaporative coolers, or "bong coolers."
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post #9 of 14
Thread Starter 
I was planing on isulating with neoprene,and I have a portable weather meter to detrimine dew point but that is not a real issue I am worried about. Evaporative condensers and cooling towers are not a choice, I would rather not have an open water system. I do appreciate everyone comments and take no offense to any responce unless spitefull. I am glad I went back to the stickies and found the engineering data I needed.

By the way here is my proposal for a 2 circuit water chiller system. I produced piping diagrams yesterday and now I am going to start the heat balance evaluation.
**Flow Direction Indicated by the numerical order**

Circuit 1 (GPU and CPU)
1.) Double Bay totaly enclosed cooling system like Kingwin or Thermaltake
2.) 60mm Peltier Water Block (Custom or Purchased???)
3.) CPU Block
4.) GPU Block

Circuit 2
1.)Radiator (2 x 120mm)
2.)60mm Peltier Water Block (Custom)
3.)Reservior
4.)Pump

Peltier
300 Watt + Peltier
Ajustabe Voltage Power Supply

Other
Low Temp Coolant
Custom Peltier/Heat Sink Retention Bracket
Fan Controller
Pump Regulator
Flow Indicator
Neoprene CPU Isulation
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post #10 of 14
If you're going to use a peltier, just make it direct-die (between your CPU heatsink and waterblock). 300+ watts is what you need. I've got a 437W TEC and idle is -20°C and full load is -10°C or so (on my 3800x2 at 2.8 Ghz and 1.65v). Peltiers aren't terribly efficient as it is, and making them anything but direct die worsens their thermal efficiency.
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