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post #2241 of 8948
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregster View Post

I never undestand the people who say "2GB isn't enough VRAM at 5760*1080 in BF3". I have played that game on "Full Ultra" and have never run out of VRAM. I have done this in SP and MP to see if I could breach the 2GB available but it didn't. Like Emett states, GPU grunt is the issue and I also tone down a couple of settings to maintain 60+fps to keep the game smooth.
Far Cry 3 I have turned settings down to medium on DX9 to try and stop the stutter (it has helped it tremendously). Again though, I never ran out of VRAM but the game was just unplayable because of the stutter (not slideshow).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregster View Post

I never undestand the people who say "2GB isn't enough VRAM at 5760*1080 in BF3". I have played that game on "Full Ultra" and have never run out of VRAM. I have done this in SP and MP to see if I could breach the 2GB available but it didn't. Like Emett states, GPU grunt is the issue and I also tone down a couple of settings to maintain 60+fps to keep the game smooth.
Far Cry 3 I have turned settings down to medium on DX9 to try and stop the stutter (it has helped it tremendously). Again though, I never ran out of VRAM but the game was just unplayable because of the stutter (not slideshow).
When I play BF3 with my single card, with all settings high and no aa or HBAO I get 1734 Vram usage. I have another one on the way today and I guarentee when I kick it to ultra everything maxed out it will be way over 2gb. Probably well over 3. On Far cry with everything maxed i get over 3400 Vram. Your only going to use as much Vram as your card has, and then the game will automatically downgrade your settings without you knowing it. With my 570s I had it would crash as soon as I turned on any AA at all because it would run out of Vram. There is no way for you to really see how much Vram a setting needs to run well unless you ahve a card that has more Vram then it needs.

When my new card comes in later I will set everything to ultra and let you know how much Vram BF3 can really use with all the settings maxed out.

You can play games at 2GB as you said, but why not just go ahead and spend another 50$ for a card that will actually give you the room the game wants to run at high settings?

I noticed with my 570s that I got better FPS at medium to high settings with no AA, but the 4GB gets much better FPS when I go to settings above my 570 Vram, and will let me take the games settings higher then the 570 will.
I use to think Vram wasn't that important until I got the 4GB card last week and started experimenting with it. You can't really see the advanteges of the extra Vram unless you have actually tried it out. BF3, far cry and even iRacing all run better on my single 670 then my sli 570s because of the extra Vram I have now. I could play them all at decent frames until I hit the Vram limits, then the stutters would start even though my FPS was still decent. with the 670 I can go past those settings and still not have the stutters.

With all that said I really have no idea what I'm talking about or what Vram is. I'm just giving my experience through trying to figure out when Vram helps when actually using more of it while playing games. It seems you don't have to have it and can get by with even a 1.2gb card, but the more you have the better it is. I can't imagine you really being able to run BF3 at ultra with all the AA turned on with a 2GB card and the game really outputting those settings.
Edited by bevo - 12/12/12 at 8:41am
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post #2242 of 8948
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregster View Post

I never undestand the people who say "2GB isn't enough VRAM at 5760*1080 in BF3". I have played that game on "Full Ultra" and have never run out of VRAM. I have done this in SP and MP to see if I could breach the 2GB available but it didn't. Like Emett states, GPU grunt is the issue and I also tone down a couple of settings to maintain 60+fps to keep the game smooth.
Far Cry 3 I have turned settings down to medium on DX9 to try and stop the stutter (it has helped it tremendously). Again though, I never ran out of VRAM but the game was just unplayable because of the stutter (not slideshow).

i have a single 670 2gb and i run lots of games @ 5760x1080, farcry 3 im getting mid 30's-40's on average (dx11, high settings), i also play BF3 at the same res, no issues with it at all, usually high 40's or 50's for FPS (depends on map)

metro 2033 however kills my system, mid-low 20's @ 5760x1080

i'm looking forward to getting a second 670 to get that FPS above 60 in everything (probably in the new year thumb.gif )
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post #2243 of 8948
Quote:
Originally Posted by bevo View Post

When I play BF3 with my single card, with all settings high and no aa or HBAO I get 1734 Vram usage. I have another one on the way today and I guarentee when I kick it to ultra everything maxed out it will be way over 2gb. Probably well over 3. On Far cry with everything maxed i get over 3400 Vram. Your only going to use as much Vram as your card has, and then the game will automatically downgrade your settings without you knowing it.

So you are saying it is turning settings down in games automatically? Have you got proof of this. I don't wish to get in an argument however I have not found a game that goes over the 2GB limit of my GPU's. BF3 is the closest I have seen but it still did not breach the 2GB.

Another thing to note is a 2GB card will be slightly faster than a 4GB card purely because the memory timings are tighter on the 2GB.
Edited by Gregster - 12/12/12 at 9:02am
    
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post #2244 of 8948
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregster View Post

I never undestand the people who say "2GB isn't enough VRAM at 5760*1080 in BF3". I have played that game on "Full Ultra" and have never run out of VRAM. I have done this in SP and MP to see if I could breach the 2GB available but it didn't. Like Emett states, GPU grunt is the issue and I also tone down a couple of settings to maintain 60+fps to keep the game smooth.

Far Cry 3 I have turned settings down to medium on DX9 to try and stop the stutter (it has helped it tremendously). Again though, I never ran out of VRAM but the game was just unplayable because of the stutter (not slideshow).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregster View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by bevo View Post

Another thing to note is a 2GB card will be slightly faster than a 4GB card purely because the memory timings are tighter on the 2GB.
+1

http://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Video-Card-Performance-2GB-vs-4GB-Memory-154






Quote:
Conclusion

So, what can we glean from all of that? For one thing, with any single monitor the 2GB video card is plenty - even on the most demanding games and benchmarks out today. When you scale up to three high-res screens the games we tested were all still fine on 2GB, though maxing out some games’ settings at that resolution really needs more than a single GPU to keep smooth frame rates. With the right combination of high resolution and high detail, though, there is the potential for 2GB to be insufficient. For future games, or perhaps current games that were not tested in this article, you might be better off with a 4GB card if - and only if - you plan to run across a multi-screen configuration.

Edited by malmental - 12/12/12 at 9:27am
post #2245 of 8948
Ok, I just got in my second 670 4gb.
FAR CRY 3. Max Vram with all settings as high as they will go
4031MB. It ran me out of Vram and stutters really bad. I was getting low 30s high 20s FPS it was unplayable at 5760x1080p with max settings.

BF3 with ultra settings
2643 on caspian border This was just drivng around in a truck. Never really seen to many vehicles or anything around me. Probably could go a little hgiher then that, Sme of the single player scenes would probably go alot higher then that.

Arma 2
2663 and this was standing aorund in the middle of a field. I couldn't really move because my FPS was like 6.

I know iRacing also breaks 2gb at it's max settings. the highest I have seen it is around 2200 and that wasn't maxed out.

I don't know about really turning down settings when it runs out of Vram. That's just the rumor on the street that everyone claims. They say it will cut back on textures or something so it doesn't crash the PC. I don't know if this is true or not, because if I turned on AA on Far Cry or BF3 it would go way over my 570s Vram and it would crash. It makes sense though because the exact same Far cry 3 settings I used with my 570s were about 800MB higher with my single 670.
Edited by bevo - 12/12/12 at 10:51am
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post #2246 of 8948
Max settings in FC3 for me with 2*MSAA and HBAO on, it was 1780MB. You have 4096MB of VRAM and if you ran out, it would be a slideshow. FC3 stutters regardless of settings on both AMD and Nvidia with SLI/CF and I am beginning to think it is the game. My previous card was a 560TI 1GB and with settings on ultra, it would be one frame every 3 seconds or so when VRAM was exceeded.
    
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post #2247 of 8948
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregster View Post

Max settings in FC3 for me with 2*MSAA and HBAO on, it was 1780MB. You have 4096MB of VRAM and if you ran out, it would be a slideshow. FC3 stutters regardless of settings on both AMD and Nvidia with SLI/CF and I am beginning to think it is the game. My previous card was a 560TI 1GB and with settings on ultra, it would be one frame every 3 seconds or so when VRAM was exceeded.

I wouldn't call the settigns ultra unless you have everything maxed and you don't with the MSAA. I think that's where people get confused when people say they are maxing out the graphics settings. It's hard to say 4GB of Vram doesn't help with triples if you just turn down AA or whatever to keep your card under the vram limit. There is a huge difference between no AA, 2xaa, 4xaa etc. As far as exceeding the Vram causing that kind of 1 frame every 3 seconds that's not what I ran into with my 570s and one 670 4gb when I tested them. The same setting I used for my 570s would use less Vram then my single 670 and it was usually over 500mb more and when it got to be to much Vram it just crashed, it would slow down some but not to the extents you are talking about. When it got to be to much it would just crash and usually blue screen me with some Keplar message. Since i got the 4GB card it hasn't crashed.

How about trying to max out the game with MSAA at 8 and see how your FPS and Vram usage is and I'll see what my FPS and usage is with just one of my 670s and we can compare? I'm wanting to know how Vram effects things and how important it is just as much as everyone else, but I don't want to make any comments about it unless I have tested it and compared it with other peoples 2gb cards.

Here's a link to a thread I made comparing the Vram usage at the exact same settings using sli 1.2gb 570s compared to my 4GB 670. http://www.overclock.net/t/1335731/vram-test-results-sli-570s-vs-4gb-670-with-triples
All the games ran smoother with the 670 even though they were getting about 5 FPS higher with the 570s.

It seems like if the Vram is there the game will use it, but if the card doesn't have it the game does something else to get the game to run at that cards Vram limit. I don't know if it gets the memory from somewhere else or if it just downgrades the settings to make the game run. Iracing was a game that didn't even max my 570s limit, but used more then my 570s had with the 670 at the same settings. So it would stay under the limit of the card on purpose.

I guess I already ran it with one card in Far Cry 3. This is with the settings to medium on everything except textures on high with HBAO and the other thing to normal, i can't remember what it's called. It's the setting that has to do with grass and stuff. Here's a copy and paste from my test page
single 4gb 670
no msaa FPS max 51 min 38 avg 43
Used a max of 1800 vram usually in the 1700s

2xaa vram around 2000 never left 30s and was playable

4xaa vram 2800 20s. starting to get bad but not crashing, still playable but not that great

With 8xaa vram at 3400 and 15fps but no crash starting to get stutters and bad tearing
I would say this game would max out the 4gb card if everything was turned to the max. I'll find out next week. I got the other card today and it did max it out when I turned up the other settings.

I want to say i'm not really trying to say anyone is wrong or be confrontational. I just really want to figure out what is myth about Vram and how you can actually benefit from having more of it. So far I'm seeing you can actually up you settings farther with more Vram even when the card is less powerful. you might not get the FPS of the smaller card at normal settings but you can push the larger Vram card farther before you see huge FPS drop offs.
Most of the things you see online about Vram are just assumptions or people repeating what they read. It would be nice to see some results of 4gb 670s vs 2gb 670s, and see at what point the 4gb pulls ahead or if it even does.

If anyone wants to do some testing with me of 4gb 670 vs 2gb 670 at 5760x1080 here are the games I have to use.
Far Cry 3
BF3
planetside 2
Arma 2
These are really the only triple screen games I have that use much vram. Haven't really tried to see what planetside 2 uses but it's proably alot.
i could do these with either sli or a single 670, but slo would probably be the best if the game works well with it, because with really high AA a second card could help alot.
Edited by bevo - 12/12/12 at 11:39am
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post #2248 of 8948
Quote:
Originally Posted by bevo View Post


If anyone wants to do some testing with me of 4gb 670 vs 2gb 670 at 5760x1080 here are the games I have to use.
Far Cry 3
BF3
planetside 2
Arma 2
These are really the only triple screen games I have that use much vram. Haven't really tried to see what planetside 2 uses but it's proably alot.
i could do these with either sli or a single 670, but slo would probably be the best if the game works well with it, because with really high AA a second card could help alot.

I'll run these maxed out on my 4gb 670 SLI setup and see what the VRAM usage is as well.
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post #2249 of 8948
Think this thread needs a bit of a reality check. This whole debate started when someone said 2gb cards were useless for nVidia surround. Clearly that's not true.
Also can I just point out to the people with 4gb cards that no one is doubting that they are better for surround setups. But they just really arnt required unless you have 3 or more of them to max out every setting in a game. Then and only then is the 4gb usefull.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bevo View Post

You can play games at 2GB as you said, but why not just go ahead and spend another 50$ for a card that will actually give you the room the game wants to run at high settings?

1. There were no 4gb gtx 680's when I got my cards.

2. I didn't have a surround setup when I got my cards.

3. I will run out of gpu grunt before I run out of vram, so having 2x 4gb card wouldn't change anything. I'd still be running minimal MSAA to keep frames good. So I'd be under 2000mb's VRAM usage anyway.

4. I'm not gonna change from 2gb to 4gb cards with in the same series. When the gtx 780 comes out with more VRAM then sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bevo View Post

I don't know about really turning down settings when it runs out of Vram. That's just the rumor on the street that everyone claims.

Not the streets I travel, sounds like nonsense.
Edited by emett - 12/12/12 at 2:56pm
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post #2250 of 8948
Hi there, looking into running 3 22" screens and was wondering if you guys could answer a few questions for me.

1) At 3 x 1080p what kind of card would I be looking at to max everything out?

2) VRam...I know it's been argued about before but how much do I need? 2GB? 3? 4? I run A LOT of texture mods on Skyrim and heard that it can use over 2GB but have never looked into it.

3) Does anyone have any recommendation for a triple monitor stand for 3 22" monitors?

4) Are there any particular monitors in specific you would recommend me getting. Keep in mind, my maximum budget is around $150 per monitor.

I appreciate any help you can give.

Thank You,

Bigm
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