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post #12981 of 25315
Sure, but doesn't mean it doesn't work on ladder or pro level as we've seen.
    
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post #12982 of 25315
Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowtoblerone View Post
Sure, but doesn't mean it doesn't work on ladder or pro level as we've seen.
Yeah, I don't see them that often anymore though.
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post #12983 of 25315
Quote:
Originally Posted by Allenssmart View Post
was just about to post that.

terran t3 gets nerfed. WAIT. WHAT?


ALSO, CONSIDERING 0.5625 ENERGY PER SECOND REGEN, IT NOW TAKES 267 SECONDS FOR 250MM TO RECHARGE, UP FROM THE PREVIOUS 50 seconds.

I MEAN SERIOUSLY BLIZZARD, 250MM IS OP NOW?
Question: Have you ever used 250mm cannons? I think they added the energy back in so that you don't have to wait for the cooldown but rather once you get the energy back up, you can use it again. Might make them more susceptible to feedback but as Cory mentioned, most P are concerned with storming rather than feedbacking unless its a ghost

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomDash View Post
Do you have to load cannons or spines with units? That's terrible logic Cory.

Also Spines can ******* move for free.

Ghost change is a buff and a nerf.

Still that change is bull****. Way too many buffs for Protoss for no reason. TvP is now going to be ****ed up late game all over again.
Spines might be able to move for free and its nice, but, their burrow time is horrible and in the midst of battle seems like it takes forever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Allenssmart View Post
protoss recieved the worst? a million bunkers? who builds bunkers against colossi? his logic is broken? he's high masters. i'm mid-high diamond, what are you, silver? u can feedback thors and bcruiers, and when hts run out of energy they can make actually decent units. seriously dude, think before you talk.

Open: http://www.sc2ranks.com/c/1765/overc...et-s-division/
Look towards the top, you'll find your answer @ inferno

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomDash View Post
This shows that your logic is broken. You are right Archons can be kitted all day by Marauders, but they have 360 HP and Marauders only do 10 damage to them. With no slow, it would take ALL day and stims to outspeed them. So after your Templar storm my entire army and we both have almost nothing left, you form archons and you will clean everything up.
.....
Also Terran has got nerfed just as bad as Protoss since release, if not worse.
Just wanted to point out that while the archon is being made, you get free shots depending on how many units he has left to defend the merger

Quote:
Originally Posted by cory1234 View Post
I really don't think Protoss are going to be feedbacking Thors any time soon. If thors were awesome vs Protoss they would be OP. Tanks are the much better option in PvT already, and the Protoss air is weak...aside from a VoidRay all in. Marines snap P's air. Thor's are an awkward unit, they only work in TvZ, but I think it's fair.

Protoss doesn't have the drop capability like the other races. Medivacs can heal, and overlords...are everywhere, not to mention nydus. The Warp Prism is a POS for the most part, and deciding between observers, colossus, and warp prisms limits its options.

BTW guys I JUST GRADUATED COLLEGE!!! **** YEAAHHHHHHH!
I disagree, I think prisms are such awesome units. I'm pretty confident that they'll see more usage in the near future. Something like using the energy field for cannons then making a pylon, wrapping in units into an enemy's base(dts, etc....). I agree on one thing, it can't heal units like the medivacs but its a great unit considering it only costs minerals. Wonder what it would be like if Blizzard made prisms+energy recharger(or whatever the structure was from BW)
Congrats on the graduation!!!!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CravinR1 View Post
I find my best chance of success with protoss vs zerg in the silver league (where I'm at) is to 2 gate rush them asap with 3-5 zealots (before they mass roaches)
no need to do that at all, given it's going to be more viable with the lower zealot build time. What you need to do is scout and find out if they have a lair and the tech path he's taking. If he's still on a hatchery, I've been able to make some stargates and then cb out some VRs. It took me 8 VRs(3VRs lost, 1 VR lost in the other 5) to take out his lair and then hatchery causing my opponent to have a delayed den so I was able to exp and add more structures. Point is, against Z, knowing what they are doing at all times including when they move out is pretty crucial to win.
In that specific game, my opponent noticed my heavy ground based army(zealots in that case), so, he tech switched to mutas and due to his bad macro, had something like 3k gas and minerals, so, he got 30 mutas in no time. I scouted this, cb out some phenoixes(8 I believe) and then with my zealots+2 colossi+8 VRs took on his slings+roaches+mutas. I lost my VRs+phenoixes, but, my zealots+colossi were unharmed and I was able to crush him after that. I uploaded the replay a while back(also have link in sig), maybe something in it will help you out

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruckol1 View Post
Wall off, scout, go immortals they will CHEW through roaches, then get the Colossi out and it's gg.
Still on about how P is imba? How about this. We have some ZvsP and PvsZ games each taking turns being P/Z. It'll be good practice and we can see how well your P crushes my Z
Edited by BigFan - 5/4/11 at 3:42am
    
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post #12984 of 25315
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigFan View Post

Still on about how P is imba? How about this. We have some ZvsP and PvsZ games each taking turns being P/Z. It'll be good practice and we can see how well your P crushes my Z
That doesn't really prove anything .
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post #12985 of 25315
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomDash View Post
That doesn't really prove anything .
rofl, maybe not but I like P/TvsZ games especially TvsZ and this way I get some PvsZ action I like the way T plays, everything from the drop harass to banshees to nukes, tanks, marines, etc.... Given I also like a lot of P units as well as Z
    
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post #12986 of 25315
Oh yks, you so silly.

(5:27:22 AM) SupraDoom: seeker missle needs a range buff
(5:27:25 AM) SupraDoom: to start it
(5:27:34 AM) k0n1t: but then you'll see it
(5:27:35 AM) SupraDoom: then It would actually be cool vs infestor play
(5:27:37 AM) k0n1t: froma mile away
(5:27:41 AM) SupraDoom: yeah but
(5:27:46 AM) SupraDoom: thats 1 guaranteed dead infestor
(5:27:52 AM) SupraDoom: well
(5:27:54 AM) SupraDoom: maybe not
(5:27:54 AM) k0n1t: its like infestor speed reduction being a buff
(5:27:58 AM) k0n1t: increase doesn't mean buff
(5:28:02 AM) k0n1t: and decrease doesn't mean nerf
(5:28:26 AM) k0n1t: its all on how it works
(5:28:34 AM) k0n1t: longer seeker range
(5:28:38 AM) k0n1t: would be nerf
(5:28:58 AM) SupraDoom: No
(5:29:00 AM) SupraDoom: it would be buff
(5:29:02 AM) SupraDoom: and let me tell you why
(5:29:11 AM) SupraDoom: because you can still move in closer before casting
(5:29:12 AM) SupraDoom: :/
(5:29:20 AM) SupraDoom: you dont need to launch it at a longer range
(5:29:23 AM) SupraDoom: you just have the option
(5:29:47 AM) k0n1t: what?
(5:29:54 AM) SupraDoom: no matter what
(5:29:55 AM) SupraDoom: its a buff
(5:29:56 AM) k0n1t: that makes no sense
(5:29:56 AM) SupraDoom: like
(5:30:03 AM) SupraDoom: Its range 6 right now
(5:30:04 AM) SupraDoom: iirc
(5:30:05 AM) SupraDoom: ok?
(5:30:07 AM) SupraDoom: So
(5:30:17 AM) SupraDoom: If it was range 9
(5:30:27 AM) SupraDoom: there are some cases it would be safer to cast it from range 9
(5:30:29 AM) SupraDoom: but
(5:30:39 AM) SupraDoom: lots of cases it would be worse from range 9
(5:30:42 AM) SupraDoom: but the thing is
(5:30:45 AM) SupraDoom: if you had range 9 with it
(5:30:55 AM) SupraDoom: you could move to range six with the raven then use it
(5:30:57 AM) k0n1t: if it has more cons than pros, then its not a buff
(5:31:02 AM) SupraDoom: it has more pros
(5:31:04 AM) SupraDoom: then cons
(5:31:06 AM) SupraDoom: its a buff
(5:31:11 AM) SupraDoom: no matter what at range 9
(5:31:20 AM) k0n1t: the way the AI works is, it will always cast max range
(5:31:29 AM) SupraDoom: lol not if you tell it to move closer
(5:31:31 AM) SupraDoom: so who cares
(5:31:37 AM) SupraDoom: you can just move your unit closer
(5:31:45 AM) SupraDoom: it would have to move there anyway if it was range six
(5:31:52 AM) k0n1t: which is better
(5:31:56 AM) k0n1t: cause raven's are faster
(5:31:59 AM) k0n1t: then the seeker
(5:32:01 AM) k0n1t: speed
(5:32:07 AM) k0n1t: if a raven has the ability to seeker right under it
(5:32:11 AM) k0n1t: it'd be better
(5:32:13 AM) SupraDoom: doesnt matter, because with range 9 you can still launch at range six
(5:32:13 AM) k0n1t: than range 9
(5:32:24 AM) SupraDoom: so it would hit the target at the same time
(5:32:30 AM) k0n1t: no
(5:32:34 AM) SupraDoom: oh man
(5:32:39 AM) k0n1t: if you start a cast @ range 9
(5:32:40 AM) SupraDoom: you are not thinking this one out
(5:32:43 AM) k0n1t: seeker travel time
(5:32:45 AM) k0n1t: is longer
(5:32:45 AM) SupraDoom: you are not hearing me
(5:32:47 AM) k0n1t: than moving the raven
(5:32:49 AM) SupraDoom: YOU ARE NOT LISTENING
(5:32:53 AM) SupraDoom: you are just talking right now
(5:32:53 AM) k0n1t: YUO AREN'T LISTENING
(5:32:56 AM) SupraDoom: no
(5:33:00 AM) SupraDoom: Dude
(5:33:02 AM) SupraDoom: LISTEN TO ME
(5:33:03 AM) SupraDoom: I DIDNT SAY
(5:33:06 AM) SupraDoom: launch from range 9
(5:33:16 AM) k0n1t: you want to option to make it worse by having range 9
(5:33:36 AM) SupraDoom: I said launch your range 9 seeker missile AT RANGE 6, would be the same as launching your range six seeker missile at range six!!!
(5:34:05 AM) SupraDoom: but in some cases range 9 would be better
(5:34:13 AM) SupraDoom: like on a u nit that cannot move faster than a seeker missile
(5:34:17 AM) SupraDoom: so with range 9
(5:34:18 AM) SupraDoom: all it does
(5:34:24 AM) SupraDoom: is open up more options for launching it
(5:34:33 AM) SupraDoom: You don't NEED to cast it at max range
(5:35:10 AM) k0n1t: what?
(5:35:22 AM) k0n1t: launch at 9 missile @ 6?
(5:35:25 AM) k0n1t: how does that make sense
(5:35:32 AM) SupraDoom: k before saying anything
(5:35:47 AM) SupraDoom: pretend
(5:35:56 AM) SupraDoom: you have a raven out of range of a stalker
(5:36:10 AM) SupraDoom: you have a range six seeker missile
(5:36:22 AM) SupraDoom: you cast it on the stalker
(5:36:35 AM) SupraDoom: as soon as the raven gets in the range to cast seeker missile
(5:36:39 AM) SupraDoom: the stalker should fire his first shot
(5:36:49 AM) SupraDoom: even letting the AI do it
(5:36:53 AM) SupraDoom: what I am saying is
(5:36:56 AM) SupraDoom: in the same situation
(5:37:02 AM) SupraDoom: with a range 9 seeker missile
(5:37:21 AM) SupraDoom: you can just go towards the stalker manually, until the stalker fires at you, like my previous example
(5:37:26 AM) SupraDoom: and then cast seeker missile
(5:37:34 AM) SupraDoom: which means seeker missile is being casted @ range six
(5:37:40 AM) SupraDoom: even though you CAN launch it at range 9
(5:37:51 AM) SupraDoom: got it?
(5:37:55 AM) k0n1t: no!
(5:38:03 AM) SupraDoom: sigh
(5:38:07 AM) k0n1t: if the raven
(5:38:12 AM) k0n1t: is 15 ranges away
(5:38:21 AM) k0n1t: and i click seeker and click a unit
(5:38:32 AM) k0n1t: the raven will move towards that unit
(5:38:36 AM) k0n1t: til its in range to seeker
(5:38:39 AM) SupraDoom: yes
(5:38:45 AM) SupraDoom: which is why in my second example
(5:38:51 AM) SupraDoom: I mentioned you manually move it to range six
(5:38:57 AM) k0n1t: so there's no such thing as a luanch range!!!!!
(5:39:07 AM) SupraDoom: it deploys
(5:39:09 AM) SupraDoom: at range six
(5:39:19 AM) SupraDoom: six range away from i ts target
(5:39:28 AM) k0n1t: thats seeker range!
(5:39:34 AM) SupraDoom: yep
(5:39:43 AM) k0n1t: so theres no such thing as luanch range!
(5:40:09 AM) SupraDoom: it launches at range six, aka its seeker range
(5:40:22 AM) k0n1t: so when do you want the seeker
(5:40:24 AM) k0n1t: to leave
(5:40:29 AM) k0n1t: the raven's
(5:40:30 AM) k0n1t: body
(5:40:40 AM) SupraDoom: you are asking me?
(5:40:43 AM) k0n1t: yeah
(5:40:51 AM) SupraDoom: situational, but with range 9 it would have more options ....
(5:40:57 AM) k0n1t: with range 9
(5:41:00 AM) k0n1t: it would be a nerf!
(5:41:03 AM) SupraDoom: sigh
(5:41:05 AM) k0n1t: cause the opponent see's it coming
(5:41:08 AM) k0n1t: FROM FARTHER AWAY
(5:41:14 AM) SupraDoom: THATS IF YOU WANT TO LAUNCH IT AT RANGE 9
(5:41:25 AM) k0n1t: WHY WOULD YUO EVER START SEEKER AT RANGE 9
(5:41:27 AM) SupraDoom: YOU CAN LAUNCH IT FRMO ANYTHING 9 AND BELOW
(5:41:36 AM) SupraDoom: Let me give you an example
(5:41:40 AM) SupraDoom: let me give you a few
(5:41:58 AM) SupraDoom: Example 1
(5:42:07 AM) SupraDoom: You want to kill a queen off creep
(5:42:14 AM) SupraDoom: queen AA is 9?
(5:42:25 AM) SupraDoom: launch seeker missile @ range 9
(5:42:28 AM) SupraDoom: it cant avoid it
(5:42:35 AM) SupraDoom: Example 2
(5:42:49 AM) SupraDoom: vikings are range 9
(5:42:51 AM) k0n1t: so in that example you want to hit a queen w/o getting hit yourself. gotcha
(5:43:03 AM) SupraDoom: would you rather eat a couple hits, or get in range 6 and possibly die to attempt casting
(5:43:22 AM) SupraDoom: so against vikings range 9 would probably work out better
(5:43:28 AM) SupraDoom: another example is
(5:43:34 AM) k0n1t: so you want to hit a viking w/o getting hit yourself
(5:43:46 AM) SupraDoom: you will still get hit, if its range 9
(5:43:50 AM) SupraDoom: since they are range 9
(5:43:56 AM) SupraDoom: but you wont take hits for 3 range, if it was six
(5:43:57 AM) k0n1t: so get hits 1
(5:44:12 AM) SupraDoom: so
(5:44:15 AM) SupraDoom: im just saying
(5:44:19 AM) SupraDoom: there are some situations
(5:44:20 AM) k0n1t: its not 3 hits cause a raven moves faster than the attack interval
(5:44:21 AM) SupraDoom: range 9 would be better
(5:44:28 AM) k0n1t: but i know where you're going
(5:44:30 AM) SupraDoom: I didnt say three hits
(5:44:33 AM) SupraDoom: I said
(5:44:35 AM) SupraDoom: 3 range of hits
(5:44:39 AM) SupraDoom: so however many hits
(5:44:44 AM) SupraDoom: they take approaching in the 3 range
(5:44:50 AM) SupraDoom: idk how many it would be
(5:45:07 AM) k0n1t: the queen scenario is a buff
(5:45:12 AM) k0n1t: but thats if the queen is off creep
(5:45:23 AM) SupraDoom: but my MAIN point is
(5:45:29 AM) k0n1t: but the viking? the viking till see it farther and move away
(5:45:37 AM) SupraDoom: yes but you wont lose the raven
(5:45:40 AM) SupraDoom: like
(5:45:47 AM) SupraDoom: lets say
(5:45:49 AM) SupraDoom: you have 1 raven
(5:45:51 AM) SupraDoom: 3 vikings
(5:46:05 AM) SupraDoom: you want to launch a seeker missile off and keep your raven alive
(5:46:11 AM) SupraDoom: if it was range 6
(5:46:14 AM) k0n1t: basically you want less RISK, more REWARDS for casting a spell. cause you just aren't a risky player
(5:46:19 AM) SupraDoom: no
(5:46:24 AM) k0n1t: thats how i'm reading it
(5:46:31 AM) SupraDoom: I dont even ******* care about seeker missile
(5:46:38 AM) SupraDoom: I'm just saying range 9 would be better
(5:46:39 AM) SupraDoom: lol
(5:46:44 AM) SupraDoom: for options
(5:46:46 AM) k0n1t: be better cause its LESS risky!
(5:46:52 AM) SupraDoom: yea
(5:46:53 AM) SupraDoom: but
(5:46:55 AM) SupraDoom: it doesnt matter
(5:46:56 AM) SupraDoom: i dont care
(5:47:01 AM) SupraDoom: but im saying in some situations
(5:47:01 AM) k0n1t: so less risk, more rewards!!
(5:47:03 AM) SupraDoom: it would be safer
(5:47:06 AM) k0n1t: thats what im getting
(5:47:10 AM) SupraDoom: who cares tho
(5:47:12 AM) SupraDoom: this isnt about me
(5:47:19 AM) SupraDoom: and seeker missile sucks
(5:47:19 AM) k0n1t: in general.
(5:47:25 AM) SupraDoom: and
(5:47:27 AM) k0n1t: you want seekers to have more rewards
(5:47:32 AM) k0n1t: than the risk ratio
(5:47:39 AM) SupraDoom: i wouldnt mine seeker missile just being a little better
(5:47:46 AM) SupraDoom: I'm sure you can see why
(5:47:54 AM) k0n1t: everyone wants everything to be better
(5:47:54 AM) SupraDoom: but
(5:47:55 AM) k0n1t: for their race
(5:47:58 AM) SupraDoom: oh my god
(5:48:04 AM) SupraDoom: i dont give a ****
(5:48:06 AM) SupraDoom: if i didnt play terran
(5:48:16 AM) SupraDoom: if i played protoss
(5:48:22 AM) SupraDoom: i would want seeker missile to be better
(5:48:24 AM) SupraDoom: lol
(5:48:26 AM) SupraDoom: its terrible
(5:48:31 AM) SupraDoom: but here
(5:48:33 AM) SupraDoom: I will give you
(5:48:38 AM) SupraDoom: my #1 example
(5:48:46 AM) SupraDoom: of why I think it would be cooler
(5:48:49 AM) SupraDoom: @ range 9
(5:48:49 AM) k0n1t: nono, the examples you gave.
(5:48:54 AM) k0n1t: were to make the raven's live longer
(5:48:59 AM) SupraDoom: this one
(5:49:00 AM) k0n1t: seeker was just a by product
(5:49:03 AM) SupraDoom: is cooler tho
(5:49:06 AM) SupraDoom: Let's say
(5:49:08 AM) k0n1t: if you look @ seeker and seeker only
(5:49:10 AM) k0n1t: LISTEN
(5:49:14 AM) k0n1t: range 9 would be a nerf
(5:49:24 AM) k0n1t: if you look @ seeker and seeker only
(5:49:27 AM) k0n1t: range 9 would be a nerf
(5:49:38 AM) SupraDoom: yes but raven is a part of seeker missile
(5:49:43 AM) k0n1t: if you look @ the raven, range 9 would increase the raven's life
(5:49:48 AM) k0n1t: but REDUCE
(5:49:51 AM) k0n1t: the effectiveness
(5:49:53 AM) k0n1t: of a seeker
(5:49:56 AM) SupraDoom: no
(5:49:59 AM) k0n1t: since its easily out ran
(5:50:02 AM) SupraDoom: because you can still laucnh at range six
(5:50:06 AM) k0n1t: what CAN"T outrun a seeker
(5:50:10 AM) k0n1t: besdies queens
(5:50:12 AM) SupraDoom: doesnt matter
(5:50:13 AM) k0n1t: off creep
(5:50:20 AM) SupraDoom: im saying with range 9 you can still launch at range six
(5:50:32 AM) k0n1t: exactly range 9 just makes the raven better
(5:50:36 AM) k0n1t: doesn't make the seeker better
(5:50:41 AM) k0n1t: and we're takling about seeker here
(5:50:43 AM) k0n1t: not the raven
(5:50:45 AM) SupraDoom: we are?
(5:50:48 AM) k0n1t: yeah
(5:50:53 AM) k0n1t: SupraDoom (3:48:04 AM): i would want seeker missile to be better
(5:50:59 AM) SupraDoom: I thought we were talking about ravens and seeker missiles
(5:51:07 AM) SupraDoom: but ravenings being better = seeker missile = better
(5:51:09 AM) k0n1t: no
(5:51:20 AM) k0n1t: range 9 = raven better, seeker worse
(5:51:28 AM) SupraDoom: no
(5:51:37 AM) SupraDoom: range 9 = raven better, seeker missile has more options = better
(5:51:56 AM) k0n1t: no, range 9 = seeker more dodgeable, raven more liveable
(5:52:15 AM) SupraDoom: no, range 9 can be launched at range six, which means exactly the same!
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post #12987 of 25315
^^That's what you guys were discussing at 5:30 in the morning
    
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post #12988 of 25315
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigFan View Post
^^That's what you guys were discussing at 5:30 in the morning
It was 3 am for him .
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post #12989 of 25315
HOLY **** thats wall of text, i bet you only copy pasted the embarrassing stuff
post #12990 of 25315
I don't see why people complain about terran relying on bioball. Blizzard intended it to be the terran backbone. You can't expect every race to be the same. Besides, those units need 42523453 upgrades.

About the Warp Prism (it's not VOID prism guys!). The unit itself is pretty good, the problem is that you can't really cause much damage with the units you bring, unless it's late game and you've got HTs. You can drop in 4 zealots and warp in 4 stalkers, these units just don't have the mobility/dps to cause much damage. Slings on creep or stimmed bio responds far too quickly to make these drops worthwhile. This is why you rarely ever see them on the competitive scene.

Another thing people are overlooking in terms of balance is map selection. Remember when most maps had cliffs that terran could make great use of? I bet you guys miss those!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomDash View Post
I think tanks are pretty bad vs Protoss in 95% of situations personally.
Agreed. The 5% seems to be from early-midgame rine/tank pushes but that's about it. Otherwise, colossi/chargelot/phoenix handily counter tanks. I think it would be fair to make tanks un-graviton-beamable when sieged... it's rooted into the ground after all, sort of, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CravinR1 View Post
How do you expand if you wall off ?
You don't wall off completely, you leave 1 space with a zealot in it. Alternatively you can wall off completely and bust a building out later on.

Fast-expanding used to be the go-to strat, but not anymore. Now protoss mass up sentries, and around 60 food they'll move out.

Edit: Also, you guys realize that more patch notes are coming and that you're all arguing for no reason...?
Edited by Lazorbeam - 5/4/11 at 5:13am
    
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