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[Official] Starcraft 2 Strategy & Discussion Thread - Page 1301

post #13001 of 25319
FF is the only reason protoss is competitive, as it negates a whole myriad of strategies that you may face as a protoss player.

So I'm saying that FF is too good. And that it needs to be nerfed. I don't see how/where you get that I want the game to be imbalanced.
Edited by Lazorbeam - 5/4/11 at 8:58am
    
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post #13002 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazorbeam View Post
FF is the only reason protoss is competitive, as it negates a whole myriad of strategies that you may face as a protoss player.

So I'm saying that FF is too good. And that it needs to be nerfed. I don't see how/where you get that I want the game to be imbalanced.
I don't understand your reasoning. You say it negates strategies? How so and which ones exactly? If your referring to cheese proxy raxs, fast pools, that is a good thing in my opinion. The sentry is a weak unit early game, and it's really only powerful mid-late game imo. That is of course not taking into account EMPs.
post #13003 of 25319
Yeah I lol'd too. "FFs are OP"! I can just hear tasteless in my mind going, "No they're not, EMP".
    
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post #13004 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by cory1234 View Post
I don't understand your reasoning. You say it negates strategies? How so and which ones exactly? If your referring to cheese proxy raxs, fast pools, that is a good thing in my opinion. The sentry is a weak unit early game, and it's really only powerful mid-late game imo. That is of course not taking into account EMPs.
No cheese. Of course it won't stop proxy rushes, the timing doesn't allow for it.

- Any ling harass.
- Baneling busts.
- Early roach.
- Early rauder.
- Early rine.
- Early zealot.
- Early stalker.
- Early anything.

You can have 4 sentries and stop 50 food of MM dead in their tracks. Even 50 food of stalker/zealot can't do that. FF is an absolute necessity in all matchups except PvP. It's also the reason colossi are so powerful - nothing can get in range besides air.

A single well-placed FF can end the game on a mid-game push vs zerg, provided they forget some units at the top of their ramp.

If you can't see how strong FF is, I don't know *** your protoss opponents have been doing.
Edited by Lazorbeam - 5/4/11 at 11:21am
    
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post #13005 of 25319
BigFan, how do I join that OCN division?
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post #13006 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazorbeam View Post
No cheese. Of course it won't stop proxy rushes, the timing doesn't allow for it.

- Any ling harass.
- Baneling busts.
- Early roach.
- Early rauder.
- Early rine.
- Early zealot.
- Early stalker.
- Early anything.

You can have 4 sentries and stop 50 food of MM dead in their tracks. Even 50 food of stalker/zealot can't do that. FF is an absolute necessity in all matchups except PvP. It's also the reason colossi are so powerful - nothing can get in range besides air.

A single well-placed FF can end the game on a mid-game push vs zerg, provided they forget some units at the top of their ramp.

If you can't see how strong FF is, I don't know *** your protoss opponents have been doing.
I never said FF wasn't strong. The sentry unit itself is very weak when it is alone.

In your reference to the early roach I am on the fence. The expo roach followed by speed lings is very strong right now in PvZ. I've seen it twice on code S recently demolishing the P. The Protoss had perfect FF and still lost.

Marauders..if the terran does a 2 rax timing with one making marauders and the P goes for early expo with sentries he is ****ed. I actually don't even get an early sentry any more because you get one FF and when its done your screwed because it just tickles units instead of actually doing damage.

Mid game vs T or Z. Don't fight in tiny chokes, and the stable of countering colossus for T is the 9 range viking which can be made 2 at a time? If that doesn't work just go heavy marauders..seems to work because FF only lasts so long. Zerg gets burrowed roaches that can heal underground while moving past the FF.

Quote:
A single well-placed FF can end the game on a mid-game push vs zerg, provided they forget some units at the top of their ramp.
Mid game Zerg should be on 3 bases, and if you let Protoss get to your main ramp you aren't exactly a good Z. Good Zergs will see the attack coming from at least half the map distance. A perfect way to deal with P pushes is countering with a pack of lings to force P back.

Quote:
You can have 4 sentries and stop 50 food of MM dead in their tracks. Even 50 food of stalker/zealot can't do that.
You should be expanding before 50 food unless your going all in.

Your complaining that you can't end the game in less than 5 minutes is what your defense pretty much said. I really feel the sentry is not overpowered, and it is a very vulnerable unit. Once a Protoss's sentries are gone he/she might as well GG.
Edited by cory1234 - 5/4/11 at 11:58am
post #13007 of 25319
IdrA with commentary > IdrA with dubstep...

http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/IdrA

lulz
    
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post #13008 of 25319
I think what everyone is saying about sentries is that they basically shut down any early play, which isn't really fair- there's no opportunity to win up front right away, the protoss always forces a midgame. I know bunkers are free and can be repaired blah blah blah but they still cost 100 minerals up front, and mineral to repair them. FF denies early pressure for 15s each time, and you can keep casting them as long as you have energy. When you get a bunch of early sentries, you guarantee that you can't be attacked without forcing a scan or sacrificing a overlord to see the high ground, and you get to go into panic mode for that 15s and do whatever it is you need to do to hold off that pressure. FF also can cut armies in half- the hardest 4-gates I've had played against me involved FF half my forces back, or covering my bunker with FF to prevent repair.

Forcefield is part of the game, but now that players have figured out how to use it effectively, it shuts down any early options against P for both T and Z. 5-6 minute all ins are part of the game, and it should depend on skill not a crutch in order to beat them.
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post #13009 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by KittensMewMew View Post
I think what everyone is saying about sentries is that they basically shut down any early play, which isn't really fair- there's no opportunity to win up front right away, the protoss always forces a midgame. I know bunkers are free and can be repaired blah blah blah but they still cost 100 minerals up front, and mineral to repair them. FF denies early pressure for 15s each time, and you can keep casting them as long as you have energy. When you get a bunch of early sentries, you guarantee that you can't be attacked without forcing a scan or sacrificing a overlord to see the high ground, and you get to go into panic mode for that 15s and do whatever it is you need to do to hold off that pressure. FF also can cut armies in half- the hardest 4-gates I've had played against me involved FF half my forces back, or covering my bunker with FF to prevent repair.

Forcefield is part of the game, but now that players have figured out how to use it effectively, it shuts down any early options against P for both T and Z. 5-6 minute all ins are part of the game, and it should depend on skill not a crutch in order to beat them.
Starcraft is about macro. 5-6 minute all ins are for noobs.
post #13010 of 25319
forcefields completely remove the enemies ability to micro. forcefields prevent all ground units from coming in range with the 40 stalkers, let alone the 5 op laz0r beam roasters. Forcefields prevent the enemy from attacking at all, while you can still attack with 100% dps. However, the enemies dps is now ZERO.

So tell me, what's imbalanced with being ability to attack with your entire army while the enemy army cannot attack OR retreat? idk bro, tell me
Hehe xD
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Hehe xD
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