Overclock.net › Forums › Video Games › PC Gaming › [Official] Starcraft 2 Strategy & Discussion Thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

[Official] Starcraft 2 Strategy & Discussion Thread - Page 133

post #1321 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by |\\/|0D3R|\\|♠\\/\\/4R|=4R3♠2 View Post
Here is why zerg is the worst race:

1) Starter unit zergalings can't shoot and are weaker than your opponents workers.
Terran get marine right away they can provide air defense or ground defense, and kill
zerglings even before they can get close.

2) Zerg can only build on creep. This sucks, terran can build where ever they want to and they don't have to worry about creep.

3) Zerg loose workers when to bulid buildings.

4) No way to repair units, except roach, terran can repair units with SCV's.

5) Zerg need to constantly keep clicking queen to spawn larvae.
Queens can infuse to heal. Zerg units regenerate all of their HP anyhow if they don't die first. The Zerg strategy is not one to kill and not be killed. Zerg is meant to overwhelm with numbers, ignoring losses because they can make more.

2 is not even a factor. Protoss can only build near pylons, which is the same as the creep.

For 1 - zerglings are useful in the very early stages of the game and when used mixed in with large numbers of other units. They are not meant to be an overwhelming force.

The Zerg strategy usually revolves around 1) Controlling the map or two 2) killing VERY quickly. The Zerg do have deficiencies, but not for most of the reasons you list. Number 5 is probably the biggest issue.
broke860
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
I7 860 @ 4.1GHz MSI P55-GD65 ASUS R9 270 G.Skill Ripjaws X series 2x4G 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
WD Caviar Blue 500G x2 Raid 1 Corsair H100 Win7 Home Premium x64 Asus P235hbmid 
PowerCase
OCZ GameXstream 850W Xigmatek Midgard-W 
  hide details  
Reply
broke860
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
I7 860 @ 4.1GHz MSI P55-GD65 ASUS R9 270 G.Skill Ripjaws X series 2x4G 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
WD Caviar Blue 500G x2 Raid 1 Corsair H100 Win7 Home Premium x64 Asus P235hbmid 
PowerCase
OCZ GameXstream 850W Xigmatek Midgard-W 
  hide details  
Reply
post #1322 of 25319
LOL troll.

I guess thats why there are still many top zerg players, cus what you said, zerg sucks.
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 920 Doh eVGA 759 Classy Gigabyte GTX 470 6 gb Mushkin Blackline 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
80gb SSD, 2x640 Black, 2x1TB Green, 640 Green Samsung DVD-RW W7 64bit 1920x1200 Asus 25.5 incher 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Realforce 86ub + HHKbp2 Silverstone Zeus 850W Ravenfish Rayzor Naga | Sseries Xai 
Mouse Pad
Rayzor Sphex | PT Talent 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 920 Doh eVGA 759 Classy Gigabyte GTX 470 6 gb Mushkin Blackline 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
80gb SSD, 2x640 Black, 2x1TB Green, 640 Green Samsung DVD-RW W7 64bit 1920x1200 Asus 25.5 incher 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Realforce 86ub + HHKbp2 Silverstone Zeus 850W Ravenfish Rayzor Naga | Sseries Xai 
Mouse Pad
Rayzor Sphex | PT Talent 
  hide details  
Reply
post #1323 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by xserpint View Post
Queens can infuse to heal. Zerg units regenerate all of their HP anyhow if they don't die first. The Zerg strategy is not one to kill and not be killed. Zerg is meant to overwhelm with numbers, ignoring losses because they can make more.
It's kind of hard to heal with a queen, because she is always near hatchery, out of energy spawning larvae, and only can heal once in a while. And also if you spawn the creep tumer you are going to be out of energy for larvae.

Also amassing large numbers of mutalisks is problematic because each of them costs insane quantities of gas.

To the yellowtoblerone troll above me: hey go look at the most plaid races zerg is the last, Protoss and Terran are more powerful than Zerg, and majority of people agree with me. Now please go away and troll somewhere else.

Just because there was some legendary uber 1337 guy who managed to win with zerg against some noob one time doesn't change the facts.
Fatal1ty
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Q6600 @ 3.2GHz XFX 780i SLI EVGA 480 + Zotac 480 2 x 2GB G. Skill DDR2 @ 800MHz 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
Hitachi 2x 250GB RAID 0 LG 48xDVD/RW Windows 7 x64 Professional 3 x Acer GD235HZ 120Hz 2ms 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Microsoft Ergonomic Keyboard 1220 KingWin Mach 1 Coolermaster HAF - X Razer Deathadder 
Mouse Pad
Razer eXactMat 
  hide details  
Reply
Fatal1ty
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Q6600 @ 3.2GHz XFX 780i SLI EVGA 480 + Zotac 480 2 x 2GB G. Skill DDR2 @ 800MHz 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
Hitachi 2x 250GB RAID 0 LG 48xDVD/RW Windows 7 x64 Professional 3 x Acer GD235HZ 120Hz 2ms 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Microsoft Ergonomic Keyboard 1220 KingWin Mach 1 Coolermaster HAF - X Razer Deathadder 
Mouse Pad
Razer eXactMat 
  hide details  
Reply
post #1324 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by |\\/|0D3R|\\|♠\\/\\/4R|=4R3♠2 View Post
Here is why zerg is the worst race:

1) Starter unit zergalings can't shoot and are weaker than your opponents workers.
Terran get marine right away they can provide air defense or ground defense, and kill
zerglings even before they can get close.

2) Zerg can only build on creep. This sucks, terran can build where ever they want to and they don't have to worry about creep.

3) Zerg loose workers when to bulid buildings.

4) No way to repair units, except roach, terran can repair units with SCV's.

5) Zerg need to constantly keep clicking queen to spawn larvae.
My head hurts.
post #1325 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by |\\/|0D3R|\\|♠\\/\\/4R|=4R3♠2 View Post
Here is why zerg is the worst race:

1) Starter unit zergalings can't shoot and are weaker than your opponents workers.
Terran get marine right away they can provide air defense or ground defense, and kill
zerglings even before they can get close.

2) Zerg can only build on creep. This sucks, terran can build where ever they want to and they don't have to worry about creep.

3) Zerg loose workers when to bulid buildings.

4) No way to repair units, except roach, terran can repair units with SCV's.

5) Zerg need to constantly keep clicking queen to spawn larvae.
1) Zealots are melee only as well.

2) Creep can advance quickly, tumors can spawn other tumors

3) Its easy and mandatory to expand, 5 drones to establish most of your tech isnt alot. 300 minerals vs 400 for a main base.

4) Protoss can't repair either, units can self heal on creep in cases.

5) Crono boost, scan or mule, everyone has abilities to use.

You forgot to mention how good zerg are at map control, which is like a huge deal.
My System
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel I5 3570 @4.7Ghz Biostar TZ77XE3 Asus GTX 670-DC2 G.SKILL Sniper 8gb 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Segate 500gbx2 (Raid 0) + 120gb OCZ SSD Noctua NH-D14 Windows 7 x64 Ultimate Acer AL2216w 22" x2 
PowerCaseMouse
SeaSonic X750 Gold 750W In-Win Dragon Rider Razer Deathadder 
  hide details  
Reply
My System
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel I5 3570 @4.7Ghz Biostar TZ77XE3 Asus GTX 670-DC2 G.SKILL Sniper 8gb 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Segate 500gbx2 (Raid 0) + 120gb OCZ SSD Noctua NH-D14 Windows 7 x64 Ultimate Acer AL2216w 22" x2 
PowerCaseMouse
SeaSonic X750 Gold 750W In-Win Dragon Rider Razer Deathadder 
  hide details  
Reply
post #1326 of 25319
Not saying it's necessarily harder.. but zerg is extremely newb-unfriendly. A lot of zerg's strengths require at least a decent knowledge of the game to fully take advantage of and zerg's units are overall at least slightly weaker than their terran/protoss versions.

Being able to mass produce only workers or only fighting units, insane map control, and the ability to expand much quicker than other races isn't exactly something easy to do for someone who just started playing.

Although, arguably, zerg is slightly weaker or at least more unpopular than the other two races at the high level; if you look at statistics of the top few hundred players, there aren't as many zergs are the other two races.
i5
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 750 @ 3.3ghz EVGA P55 LE BFG GTS250 1GB G.SKILL 2x2GB DDR1600 
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
WD 500gb Windows 7 64-bit 22'' Asus VW224U OCZ ModXStream 700w 
Case
Antec Sonata III 
  hide details  
Reply
i5
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 750 @ 3.3ghz EVGA P55 LE BFG GTS250 1GB G.SKILL 2x2GB DDR1600 
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
WD 500gb Windows 7 64-bit 22'' Asus VW224U OCZ ModXStream 700w 
Case
Antec Sonata III 
  hide details  
Reply
post #1327 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by |\\/|0D3R|\\|♠\\/\\/4R|=4R3♠2 View Post
It's kind of hard to heal with a queen, because she is always near hatchery, out of energy spawning larvae, and only can heal once in a while. And also if you spawn the creep tumer you are going to be out of energy for larvae.

Also amassing large numbers of mutalisks is problematic because each of them costs insane quantities of gas.

To the yellowtoblerone troll above me: hey go look at the most plaid races zerg is the last, Protoss and Terran are more powerful than Zerg, and majority of people agree with me. Now please go away and troll somewhere else.

Just because there was some legendary uber 1337 guy who managed to win with zerg against some noob one time doesn't change the facts.
I don't remember any plaid races in SC2, but I'm not sure what Terrans wear under their uniforms. Do boxers count?

Anyway, looking at the Top 20 of the Top 200 it is broken down to:

Terran 11
Protoss 6
Zerg 3

Seems like Zerg are a bit behind, but not for any of the reasons you said in your previous post.

1. Protoss have the same issue, however Protoss Tier 1.5 has air, Zerg doesn't. We have Queens for air defense. Two Queens in your base will stthrow down Creep Tumors.

2. Protoss can only build near a Pylon... plus, Zerg can fly their "Pylons" around. They can build anywhere an Overlord is overhead.

3. This does suck but Zerg can make 3 drones at once, and have 1/5 of the buildings of the other races. Plus, the cost is adjusted for this.

4. Zerg buildings don't explode when they go in the red... in fact they can heal to full on their own. Plus, they spawn Broodlings when they die. (This actually saved me once or twice)

5. Chrono Boost, Mule, and Inject Larva. All intended to force player into Macro-centric decisions. It sucks but is intended.

Anyway, there are some imba problems, but I'd rather play the game than complain about them. Plus, I like playing the race that is considered underpowered. Makes my wins that much more gratifying.
Edited by sorrowfool - 9/8/10 at 7:52pm
post #1328 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by sorrowfool View Post
2. Protoss can only build near a Pylon... plus, Zerg can fly their "Pylons" around. They can build anywhere an Overlord is overhead.

3. This does suck but Zerg can make 3 drones at once, and have 1/5 of the buildings of the other races. Plus, the cost is adjusted for this.

4. Zerg buildings don't explode when they go in the red... in fact they can heal to full on their own. Plus, they spawn Broodlings when they die. (This actually saved me once or twice)

5. Chrono Boost, Mule, and Inject Larva. All intended to force player into Macro-centric decisions. It sucks but is intended.
2. true, but you arguably need 2 expensive upgrades to do so. A) lair, and b) overlord speed, otherwise it's beyond sloooooooooooow. Both costing gas.

3. They have 1/5th of the buildings, but destroying that single building will cut off the production ability of that unit unless you have a duplicate of the building. Which does not match the other races at all since they will have multiple buildings to make multiple units regardless.

4. True, but overall the healing speed of the buildings and/or units (except a burrowed upgraded roach) is quite low, almost pathetic.

5. chrono and mule don't have a drawback per se. If you miss them, oh well (though chrono boost is a bigger loss). If you miss larva, it's a much bigger issue. mules are pure bonuses, with no drawback at all.
post #1329 of 25319
ohhhhhhhhhhh my goddddddddddddddddddd. Seriously modern warfare you couldn't have a more simplistic idea of Starcraft II.

I mean that entire post you listing off why Z is the worst is completely not thought out even remotely. I'm not even trying to talk **** I'm just telling you there could not be a more simplistic one sided way of looking at things. You don't even consider the Zerg advantages, or factor in anything that's realitve to the argument.

Zerg is amazing, /end. If I hear anymore Z players whine about Z I might tear my eyes out.
1440P Extreme.
(17 items)
 
Now the wifes PC.
(14 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
I7 3930K @ 4.4ghz Asus Rampage IV Extreme 2011 EVGA GTX 980 Ti 6GB FTW EVGA GTX 980 Ti 6GB FTW 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
G,skill Ripjaw Z series 2400 32gb Samsung 840 Pro Seagate 3TB 7200 RPM  Western Digital mainstream 3TB  
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 840 Pro LG Bluray Burner Noctua NH-D14 SE2011 Windows 10 x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Monoprice 27" 2560x1440 IPS LED Razer Black Widow Tournament Edition Corsair RM1000 CoolerMaster Storm Trooper 
Other
EVGA SLI Bridge 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel I7 870 @ 3.6 ghz ASUS P7P55D-E Pro EVGA 680 GTX 4gb EVGA 680 GTX 4gb 
RAMHard DriveOptical DriveOS
G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 16GB (4x 4GB) DDR3 Samsung 830 128 GB SSD, WD 2TB 7200 RPM LG Black 10X Blu-ray Burner Windows 7 64 bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Acer G24, 24" 1920x1200 Razer Blackwidow Ultimate Antec TruePower 750 COOLER MASTER Storm Scout 
MouseMouse Pad
Rat7 Razer eXactMat 
  hide details  
Reply
1440P Extreme.
(17 items)
 
Now the wifes PC.
(14 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
I7 3930K @ 4.4ghz Asus Rampage IV Extreme 2011 EVGA GTX 980 Ti 6GB FTW EVGA GTX 980 Ti 6GB FTW 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
G,skill Ripjaw Z series 2400 32gb Samsung 840 Pro Seagate 3TB 7200 RPM  Western Digital mainstream 3TB  
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 840 Pro LG Bluray Burner Noctua NH-D14 SE2011 Windows 10 x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Monoprice 27" 2560x1440 IPS LED Razer Black Widow Tournament Edition Corsair RM1000 CoolerMaster Storm Trooper 
Other
EVGA SLI Bridge 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel I7 870 @ 3.6 ghz ASUS P7P55D-E Pro EVGA 680 GTX 4gb EVGA 680 GTX 4gb 
RAMHard DriveOptical DriveOS
G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 16GB (4x 4GB) DDR3 Samsung 830 128 GB SSD, WD 2TB 7200 RPM LG Black 10X Blu-ray Burner Windows 7 64 bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Acer G24, 24" 1920x1200 Razer Blackwidow Ultimate Antec TruePower 750 COOLER MASTER Storm Scout 
MouseMouse Pad
Rat7 Razer eXactMat 
  hide details  
Reply
post #1330 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by |\\/|0D3R|\\|♠\\/\\/4R|=4R3♠2 View Post
Here is why zerg is the worst race:

1) Starter unit zergalings can't shoot and are weaker than your opponents workers.
Terran get marine right away they can provide air defense or ground defense, and kill
zerglings even before they can get close.

2) Zerg can only build on creep. This sucks, terran can build where ever they want to and they don't have to worry about creep.

3) Zerg loose workers when to bulid buildings.

4) No way to repair units, except roach, terran can repair units with SCV's.

5) Zerg need to constantly keep clicking queen to spawn larvae.
1. 2 ling = 50 minerals, 1 marine = 50 minerals. 2 ling > 1 marine. If you're going to attack a ball of marines with a slightly greater or equal amount of lings, you're wrong. Don't caught in a bad position with lings, then they can be a great asset through out the entire match.

2. I don't consider this a weakness. Creep tumors and 300 mineral hatcheries are good. Creep aids your units.

3. Zerg structures are relatively cheap compared to p and t. Each race build differently and they all have pros and cons associated with zerg being no worst than the others.

4. All zerg units regen automatically, creep aids that process too. Terran only repair mechanical vehicles. Medvacs heal bio but it costs minerals, gas, and supply to build them and they are limited to energy.

5. Queens ability to spawn larva means zerg is the fastest to micro up units in a pinch and don't forget about the 300 mineral hatcheries. You need quick re-enforcements? Well good thing you got those upgraded lings to easily spawn to your rally point, right? Many times has 10,14,20,etc lings been the extra oomph after a draw in a battle to topple my opponent.


By the way I'm a dedicated zerg player right now and I have to say that zerg is greater than protoss if you have your macro down. I got to say terran is slightly op in all the wrong spots for z/t. I personally don't think it would to much to fix the balance issues.
Edited by mr.derp - 9/8/10 at 9:01pm
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: PC Gaming
Overclock.net › Forums › Video Games › PC Gaming › [Official] Starcraft 2 Strategy & Discussion Thread