Overclock.net › Forums › Video Games › PC Gaming › [Official] Starcraft 2 Strategy & Discussion Thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

[Official] Starcraft 2 Strategy & Discussion Thread - Page 1382

post #13811 of 25319
Just watched your replay yellow... why do you get gas so early if you aren't going to use it. Can't say I'm surprised your army is smaller or you get later expansions when you waste probes on gas and assimilators. If you go gas heavy you should do a sentry expand, which will give you more minerals for an expansion. Even playing that opener poorly you still expanded faster than the Terran and started upgrading faster so can you give me replays of your examples instead? Also early on I noticed for awhile you missed quite a few warp gate timings with money to spare, and late game especially when you were floating so much minerals you did the same thing. That's one of the biggest keys to getting a ton of units out as Protoss in a respectable time.

Also, you had so much money and never took a 4th or 5th, what was with that? I even felt you could have ended it when you pushed with your 2 colossi if you just got some decent FF's off. He had no vikings at the time.
1440P Extreme.
(17 items)
 
Now the wifes PC.
(14 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
I7 3930K @ 4.4ghz Asus Rampage IV Extreme 2011 EVGA GTX 980 Ti 6GB FTW EVGA GTX 980 Ti 6GB FTW 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
G,skill Ripjaw Z series 2400 32gb Samsung 840 Pro Seagate 3TB 7200 RPM  Western Digital mainstream 3TB  
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 840 Pro LG Bluray Burner Noctua NH-D14 SE2011 Windows 10 x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Monoprice 27" 2560x1440 IPS LED Razer Black Widow Tournament Edition Corsair RM1000 CoolerMaster Storm Trooper 
Other
EVGA SLI Bridge 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel I7 870 @ 3.6 ghz ASUS P7P55D-E Pro EVGA 680 GTX 4gb EVGA 680 GTX 4gb 
RAMHard DriveOptical DriveOS
G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 16GB (4x 4GB) DDR3 Samsung 830 128 GB SSD, WD 2TB 7200 RPM LG Black 10X Blu-ray Burner Windows 7 64 bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Acer G24, 24" 1920x1200 Razer Blackwidow Ultimate Antec TruePower 750 COOLER MASTER Storm Scout 
MouseMouse Pad
Rat7 Razer eXactMat 
  hide details  
Reply
1440P Extreme.
(17 items)
 
Now the wifes PC.
(14 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
I7 3930K @ 4.4ghz Asus Rampage IV Extreme 2011 EVGA GTX 980 Ti 6GB FTW EVGA GTX 980 Ti 6GB FTW 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
G,skill Ripjaw Z series 2400 32gb Samsung 840 Pro Seagate 3TB 7200 RPM  Western Digital mainstream 3TB  
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 840 Pro LG Bluray Burner Noctua NH-D14 SE2011 Windows 10 x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Monoprice 27" 2560x1440 IPS LED Razer Black Widow Tournament Edition Corsair RM1000 CoolerMaster Storm Trooper 
Other
EVGA SLI Bridge 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel I7 870 @ 3.6 ghz ASUS P7P55D-E Pro EVGA 680 GTX 4gb EVGA 680 GTX 4gb 
RAMHard DriveOptical DriveOS
G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 16GB (4x 4GB) DDR3 Samsung 830 128 GB SSD, WD 2TB 7200 RPM LG Black 10X Blu-ray Burner Windows 7 64 bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Acer G24, 24" 1920x1200 Razer Blackwidow Ultimate Antec TruePower 750 COOLER MASTER Storm Scout 
MouseMouse Pad
Rat7 Razer eXactMat 
  hide details  
Reply
post #13812 of 25319
the only person in the entire ~5 or so pages that made sense was Blinker/Poroboscsz.

Everything else was just bishing and unjustified and opinions.

Blinker why are you so smart?
post #13813 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by yks View Post
the only person in the entire ~5 or so pages that made sense was Blinker/Poroboscsz.

Everything else was just bishing and unjustified and opinions.

Blinker why are you so smart?
So you don't agree with anything that me or doom had to say about collosus being retarded? Also, who's Binker?
My Current Rig
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom X4 965BE @ 3.4GHz Gigabyte Nvidia GTX260 216 2X2GB DDR3 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
1TB WD HDD & 250GB WD HDD Windows 7 Asus VH 23" LED LCD Logitech Media 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Sparkle 550w CM690 MS Intellimouse 3.0 Qck+ 
  hide details  
Reply
My Current Rig
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom X4 965BE @ 3.4GHz Gigabyte Nvidia GTX260 216 2X2GB DDR3 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
1TB WD HDD & 250GB WD HDD Windows 7 Asus VH 23" LED LCD Logitech Media 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Sparkle 550w CM690 MS Intellimouse 3.0 Qck+ 
  hide details  
Reply
post #13814 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mwarren View Post
So you don't agree with anything that me or doom had to say about collosus being retarded? Also, who's Binker?
or jediwin. yks seemed to miss that everything we said had nothing to do with balance. yks agrees with us on colossus so I don't know why he said that.

Also no one was bishing besides maybe yellow?
1440P Extreme.
(17 items)
 
Now the wifes PC.
(14 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
I7 3930K @ 4.4ghz Asus Rampage IV Extreme 2011 EVGA GTX 980 Ti 6GB FTW EVGA GTX 980 Ti 6GB FTW 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
G,skill Ripjaw Z series 2400 32gb Samsung 840 Pro Seagate 3TB 7200 RPM  Western Digital mainstream 3TB  
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 840 Pro LG Bluray Burner Noctua NH-D14 SE2011 Windows 10 x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Monoprice 27" 2560x1440 IPS LED Razer Black Widow Tournament Edition Corsair RM1000 CoolerMaster Storm Trooper 
Other
EVGA SLI Bridge 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel I7 870 @ 3.6 ghz ASUS P7P55D-E Pro EVGA 680 GTX 4gb EVGA 680 GTX 4gb 
RAMHard DriveOptical DriveOS
G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 16GB (4x 4GB) DDR3 Samsung 830 128 GB SSD, WD 2TB 7200 RPM LG Black 10X Blu-ray Burner Windows 7 64 bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Acer G24, 24" 1920x1200 Razer Blackwidow Ultimate Antec TruePower 750 COOLER MASTER Storm Scout 
MouseMouse Pad
Rat7 Razer eXactMat 
  hide details  
Reply
1440P Extreme.
(17 items)
 
Now the wifes PC.
(14 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
I7 3930K @ 4.4ghz Asus Rampage IV Extreme 2011 EVGA GTX 980 Ti 6GB FTW EVGA GTX 980 Ti 6GB FTW 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
G,skill Ripjaw Z series 2400 32gb Samsung 840 Pro Seagate 3TB 7200 RPM  Western Digital mainstream 3TB  
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 840 Pro LG Bluray Burner Noctua NH-D14 SE2011 Windows 10 x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Monoprice 27" 2560x1440 IPS LED Razer Black Widow Tournament Edition Corsair RM1000 CoolerMaster Storm Trooper 
Other
EVGA SLI Bridge 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel I7 870 @ 3.6 ghz ASUS P7P55D-E Pro EVGA 680 GTX 4gb EVGA 680 GTX 4gb 
RAMHard DriveOptical DriveOS
G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 16GB (4x 4GB) DDR3 Samsung 830 128 GB SSD, WD 2TB 7200 RPM LG Black 10X Blu-ray Burner Windows 7 64 bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Acer G24, 24" 1920x1200 Razer Blackwidow Ultimate Antec TruePower 750 COOLER MASTER Storm Scout 
MouseMouse Pad
Rat7 Razer eXactMat 
  hide details  
Reply
post #13815 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mwarren View Post
So you don't agree with anything that me or doom had to say about collosus being retarded? Also, who's Binker?
Porobo = Blinker.

For me to talk about balance, I only reference high level tournament-caliber play. Because all of us are no where near the skill level to comment on such things. The pros make mistakes too, yes, but it is less often than us ADDED on to their higher level understanding.

So from an observational standpoint, in high level play, Colossus is almost irrelevant (with the current state of the game) cause the Pros already know how to deal with it.

In non-tournament level play say bottom tier Grandmaster, I can see why people THINK they are imbalanced but I don't think that is the case.
post #13816 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by yks View Post
Porobo = Blinker.

For me to talk about balance, I only reference high level tournament-caliber play. Because all of us are no where near the skill level to comment on such things. The pros make mistakes too, yes, but it is less often than us ADDED on to their higher level understanding.

So from an observational standpoint, in high level play, Colossus is almost irrelevant (with the current state of the game) cause the Pros already know how to deal with it.

In non-tournament level play say bottom tier Grandmaster, I can see why people THINK they are imbalanced but I don't think that is the case.
You must be a skimmer because we made it a point not to say it was imbalanced. Imbalance is nothing to do with what any of us were talking about! Read better next time .
1440P Extreme.
(17 items)
 
Now the wifes PC.
(14 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
I7 3930K @ 4.4ghz Asus Rampage IV Extreme 2011 EVGA GTX 980 Ti 6GB FTW EVGA GTX 980 Ti 6GB FTW 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
G,skill Ripjaw Z series 2400 32gb Samsung 840 Pro Seagate 3TB 7200 RPM  Western Digital mainstream 3TB  
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 840 Pro LG Bluray Burner Noctua NH-D14 SE2011 Windows 10 x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Monoprice 27" 2560x1440 IPS LED Razer Black Widow Tournament Edition Corsair RM1000 CoolerMaster Storm Trooper 
Other
EVGA SLI Bridge 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel I7 870 @ 3.6 ghz ASUS P7P55D-E Pro EVGA 680 GTX 4gb EVGA 680 GTX 4gb 
RAMHard DriveOptical DriveOS
G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 16GB (4x 4GB) DDR3 Samsung 830 128 GB SSD, WD 2TB 7200 RPM LG Black 10X Blu-ray Burner Windows 7 64 bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Acer G24, 24" 1920x1200 Razer Blackwidow Ultimate Antec TruePower 750 COOLER MASTER Storm Scout 
MouseMouse Pad
Rat7 Razer eXactMat 
  hide details  
Reply
1440P Extreme.
(17 items)
 
Now the wifes PC.
(14 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
I7 3930K @ 4.4ghz Asus Rampage IV Extreme 2011 EVGA GTX 980 Ti 6GB FTW EVGA GTX 980 Ti 6GB FTW 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
G,skill Ripjaw Z series 2400 32gb Samsung 840 Pro Seagate 3TB 7200 RPM  Western Digital mainstream 3TB  
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 840 Pro LG Bluray Burner Noctua NH-D14 SE2011 Windows 10 x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Monoprice 27" 2560x1440 IPS LED Razer Black Widow Tournament Edition Corsair RM1000 CoolerMaster Storm Trooper 
Other
EVGA SLI Bridge 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel I7 870 @ 3.6 ghz ASUS P7P55D-E Pro EVGA 680 GTX 4gb EVGA 680 GTX 4gb 
RAMHard DriveOptical DriveOS
G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 16GB (4x 4GB) DDR3 Samsung 830 128 GB SSD, WD 2TB 7200 RPM LG Black 10X Blu-ray Burner Windows 7 64 bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Acer G24, 24" 1920x1200 Razer Blackwidow Ultimate Antec TruePower 750 COOLER MASTER Storm Scout 
MouseMouse Pad
Rat7 Razer eXactMat 
  hide details  
Reply
post #13817 of 25319
I'm an imperfect player. The perfect case of one player being the same as the other in terms of production is purely hypothetical. When both are of the same pace/cycle, Terran has the leniency to start the upgrades first. Just because the Toss has the finances and ability to start a forge and upgrades the same time as Terran doesn't mean he actually will know that he could due to lack of information without obs. Whereas Terran can just click and see what Toss is up to, feel safe and decide when to start the engie bay.

Yes Toss can get col/splash units out on two base. I merely said you can't double upgrade and keep on making units out of all production facilities, two nexus, five gate, and robo. You'll be cutting units unless you want to stop probe production at 50 workers, for units, to do a timing push. In regards to the second or third base. That just depends on the contain each player has for the zones they control. I've killed players with two col timing pushes and I've lost because they went for faster vikings. However that has nothing to do with the numbers in which we were talking about.

I'm merely pointing out some trends in the early to meta game. I never brought up the PvT imbalances in the first place nor do I care. I feel I can also see your point of view as well. Like I said in the first post regarding this whole PvT discussion, that nothing is absolute and that quicker upgrades and faster/safer second or third for T isn't always the case. Also as I said everything evens out in a point in time. However I gave hypothetical situations where it is the case, with examples being two naniwai vs thor games.
Edited by yellowtoblerone - 5/25/11 at 7:48pm
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 920 Doh eVGA 759 Classy Gigabyte GTX 470 6 gb Mushkin Blackline 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
80gb SSD, 2x640 Black, 2x1TB Green, 640 Green Samsung DVD-RW W7 64bit 1920x1200 Asus 25.5 incher 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Realforce 86ub + HHKbp2 Silverstone Zeus 850W Ravenfish Rayzor Naga | Sseries Xai 
Mouse Pad
Rayzor Sphex | PT Talent 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 920 Doh eVGA 759 Classy Gigabyte GTX 470 6 gb Mushkin Blackline 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
80gb SSD, 2x640 Black, 2x1TB Green, 640 Green Samsung DVD-RW W7 64bit 1920x1200 Asus 25.5 incher 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Realforce 86ub + HHKbp2 Silverstone Zeus 850W Ravenfish Rayzor Naga | Sseries Xai 
Mouse Pad
Rayzor Sphex | PT Talent 
  hide details  
Reply
post #13818 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by yks View Post
Porobo = Blinker.

For me to talk about balance, I only reference high level tournament-caliber play. Because all of us are no where near the skill level to comment on such things. The pros make mistakes too, yes, but it is less often than us ADDED on to their higher level understanding.

So from an observational standpoint, in high level play, Colossus is almost irrelevant (with the current state of the game) cause the Pros already know how to deal with it.

In non-tournament level play say bottom tier Grandmaster, I can see why people THINK they are imbalanced but I don't think that is the case.
We never said that it was unbalanced just that it's a boring/stagnant unit that doesn't do anything but cause the opposing player to react by getting only 1 unit that's capable of countering it where as other units have multiple counters and make the game more interesting for the most part. Collosus is a 1a unit that deals a lot of splash damage that has only one real counter per matchup.

I disagree with your idea that only tip top tournament players can comment on balance. In other sports for examples even commentators can comment on and discuss many high level concepts. Who's to say that people in the top 1/2% of the whole game that play the game a ton and watch lots of pro games cant talk about balance?
My Current Rig
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom X4 965BE @ 3.4GHz Gigabyte Nvidia GTX260 216 2X2GB DDR3 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
1TB WD HDD & 250GB WD HDD Windows 7 Asus VH 23" LED LCD Logitech Media 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Sparkle 550w CM690 MS Intellimouse 3.0 Qck+ 
  hide details  
Reply
My Current Rig
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom X4 965BE @ 3.4GHz Gigabyte Nvidia GTX260 216 2X2GB DDR3 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
1TB WD HDD & 250GB WD HDD Windows 7 Asus VH 23" LED LCD Logitech Media 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Sparkle 550w CM690 MS Intellimouse 3.0 Qck+ 
  hide details  
Reply
post #13819 of 25319
See Yellow, everyone here was just discussing the match up. No talk of imbalance really, more or less different point of views or trying to understand the timings. As far as Colossus goes no one said they were imbalanced either, we just discussed why they were a poorly designed unit and would have been better off with a unit like the Reaver, but yks can't read .
1440P Extreme.
(17 items)
 
Now the wifes PC.
(14 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
I7 3930K @ 4.4ghz Asus Rampage IV Extreme 2011 EVGA GTX 980 Ti 6GB FTW EVGA GTX 980 Ti 6GB FTW 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
G,skill Ripjaw Z series 2400 32gb Samsung 840 Pro Seagate 3TB 7200 RPM  Western Digital mainstream 3TB  
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 840 Pro LG Bluray Burner Noctua NH-D14 SE2011 Windows 10 x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Monoprice 27" 2560x1440 IPS LED Razer Black Widow Tournament Edition Corsair RM1000 CoolerMaster Storm Trooper 
Other
EVGA SLI Bridge 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel I7 870 @ 3.6 ghz ASUS P7P55D-E Pro EVGA 680 GTX 4gb EVGA 680 GTX 4gb 
RAMHard DriveOptical DriveOS
G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 16GB (4x 4GB) DDR3 Samsung 830 128 GB SSD, WD 2TB 7200 RPM LG Black 10X Blu-ray Burner Windows 7 64 bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Acer G24, 24" 1920x1200 Razer Blackwidow Ultimate Antec TruePower 750 COOLER MASTER Storm Scout 
MouseMouse Pad
Rat7 Razer eXactMat 
  hide details  
Reply
1440P Extreme.
(17 items)
 
Now the wifes PC.
(14 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
I7 3930K @ 4.4ghz Asus Rampage IV Extreme 2011 EVGA GTX 980 Ti 6GB FTW EVGA GTX 980 Ti 6GB FTW 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
G,skill Ripjaw Z series 2400 32gb Samsung 840 Pro Seagate 3TB 7200 RPM  Western Digital mainstream 3TB  
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 840 Pro LG Bluray Burner Noctua NH-D14 SE2011 Windows 10 x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Monoprice 27" 2560x1440 IPS LED Razer Black Widow Tournament Edition Corsair RM1000 CoolerMaster Storm Trooper 
Other
EVGA SLI Bridge 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel I7 870 @ 3.6 ghz ASUS P7P55D-E Pro EVGA 680 GTX 4gb EVGA 680 GTX 4gb 
RAMHard DriveOptical DriveOS
G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 16GB (4x 4GB) DDR3 Samsung 830 128 GB SSD, WD 2TB 7200 RPM LG Black 10X Blu-ray Burner Windows 7 64 bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Acer G24, 24" 1920x1200 Razer Blackwidow Ultimate Antec TruePower 750 COOLER MASTER Storm Scout 
MouseMouse Pad
Rat7 Razer eXactMat 
  hide details  
Reply
post #13820 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomDash View Post
or jediwin. yks seemed to miss that everything we said had nothing to do with balance. yks agrees with us on colossus so I don't know why he said that.

Also no one was bishing besides maybe yellow?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomDash View Post
You must be a skimmer because we made it a point not to say it was imbalanced. Imbalance is nothing to do with what any of us were talking about! Read better next time .
Oh I read everything thoroughly. I just found it all irrelevant.

I even read Jediwin's ONE and only non-troll post. The 1st half is basically what I said: "I'm not going to add anything on whether they are OP or not, as at our level of play, I don't feel I should cry imbalance every time I lose when there are clearly things I could've done better." -Jediwin

The 2nd half, I disagree with. You guys talk about the reaver and how it was/is more fun than the colossi. But if you think about a reaver, in sc2, it wouldn't work on a gameplay level.

For one reason: AI and Max group.

In BW you had 10 patches (i think - might be 9) vs 8 in the current.

So that's 30 vs 16 for full saturation based on AI. You see a reaver drop in BW you can only select a max of 12 units to move out the way then reboxing and PRAYING you dont reselect the previously selected workers because of AI.

In SC2 if you see a reaver drop, you can select your entire mineral line and move out the way because the AI moves WAY more efficiently.

So a BW reaver wouldn't work in SC2 simply cause the AI is so good.

Past is past. Get over BW units.

BW unit AI is garbage:
Reaver drops were so flashy cause running away from it was so ******* hard.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: PC Gaming
Overclock.net › Forums › Video Games › PC Gaming › [Official] Starcraft 2 Strategy & Discussion Thread