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[Official] Starcraft 2 Strategy & Discussion Thread - Page 142

post #1411 of 25315
Quote:
Originally Posted by thiru View Post
I'm no zerg expert by far, but here's a bit.

You made a pool at 17, which sounds late to me. People usually do them at 14 or so, which not only gives you earlier zerglings, but also earlier queen.
You made both gases at the same time, quite late I think, and then you didn't use it all. It's fine to start stockpiling for mutas later, but take it more slowly, you basically lost 6 drones in the mineral line. If you want to go fast roach or speedlings or banelings, just put one gas before or after the spawning pool (before if you want speedlings to be ready quicker).

Either that or fast expand or fast lair instead of getting a queen, but I wouldn't know too much about that.

edit: I suppose you had already given by then, but you had enough for a roach warren, which is good against zealots. (in fact it might be the best thing against zealots..?)
To add to that

- you should do the gas trick early
- you scouted early, use that info to your advantage. you saw him chronoboost zealots, you should understood not to do double gas but instead build 1-2 crawlers, rest 1 queen and zerglings.
- you should get 1 gas after pool/expo, early gas is only to upgrade to speedlings
- you need to make pool/expo earlier. By the time he has 1 zealot out on the field you should have at least 2 zerglings already near his base

- build less crawlers, instead invest in units/not so much in drones. Also invest in roaches as already mentioned.

man that blue toss really stinks. you already have great apm to beat him. just have to get more game sense, when to do what, and what counters to build.
    
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post #1412 of 25315
Oh and if you watch VODs or streams, watch PrinceXizor on Teamliquid (you can get a replay pack on his TL thread, and see his VODs on his ustream page), he's got an amazing grasp of zerg mechanics. He's basically the Trump of zergs (meaning he does replay analysis if you send him one, and comments a LOT while playing so you know why he does what he does).

edit: if you send him a replay to review, prepare for a scathing lesson you won't forget
Edited by thiru - 9/10/10 at 12:32am
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post #1413 of 25315
Quote:
Originally Posted by GodofGrunts View Post
Okay, so included in the link below is a ZvP (I'm zerg). I scouted at 8 hatched and saw the typical 2 gate setup for zealot rush.

So I rush back to base and build some spine crawlers. I will admit they weren't the best of places, and my playing was rather spratic (it's early in the morning and I suck anyway). Is there anything else I could have done (besides better spine crawler placement) that would have helped me defend against this?

Replay will be up in a second....
Watched the first few minutes of the replay and here's what i would have done different. It wasnt even a proxy 2gate and the distance between the bases are quite far so you had a good amount of time to counter it.

Get the pool at 13-14. Dont forget your queen, I noticed you waited pretty late to make it. You made 2 extractors quite early without enough drones mining minerals. Skip the early 2 extractors and just stick with 1 until you can get 12+ drones on your minerals. Place one spine crawler below, right next to hatchery. Place the other above, right next to a mineral field. The idea is to prevent zealots from fully surrounding your crawlers. This will also allow your crawlers to reach zealots anywhere near your buildings or drones.

You could have also moved your drones to the minerals fields on the right side while it was getting attacked. Dont just let them die. You also unnecessarily threw up 3 more crawlers. I would have just moved the one further on the bottom up, closer to the hatchery.

Also noticed you had a bunch of larvae not doing anything even though you had plenty of money and supply to make some units.

And your opponent was in no way cheesing. The 2 gate was not a proxy and you should have scouted the stargates.
Edited by ThumperSD - 9/10/10 at 12:38am
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post #1414 of 25315
Got myself into Diamond!
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post #1415 of 25315
nice, grats man
    
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post #1416 of 25315
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThumperSD View Post

You could have also moved your drones to the minerals fields on the right side while it was getting attacked. Dont just let them die.
This is what stuck out to me the most. You could have lured them into your Spine Crawlers. Same with the Queen. You could have micro'd her backwards in range of the Spine Crawler.
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post #1417 of 25315
Zerg bronze player here.

Got the game last month and while it's really fun, it's definitely a lot to take in at first
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post #1418 of 25315
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomDash View Post
7 range voids were pretty retarded. Out range a bunker w/ marines in it... seriously ?
Yea, now when 8 marines (400 minerals) can kill 3 void rays (750 minerals, 450 gas) without even focus fire'ing it seems much better.
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post #1419 of 25315
Quote:
Originally Posted by Realcacheese View Post
Roaches were 1 supply, 2 armor, and had 30 HP REGEN WHILE BURROWED (now they have 10 )
Overlord speed used to cost 50/50 (it's 100/100 now).
Burrow used to cost 50/50 and research in 60 seconds I think (it's 100/100 and 100 seconds now.)
Neural Parasite used to have infinite duration (this wasn't overpowered imo)

Thor 2-shot zealots/stalkers and 1-shot sentries/ht with 0 upgrades.
Emp had a radius of either 2.5 or 3.

Collusus did 25x2 damage with 0 upgrades at the beginning of beta.
Warpgate had 60 second research time (it's 140 now).
Immortals used to have a 40 second built time (it's 55 now).
Storm had a radius of 3.

Nothing else comes to mind.
Roaches getting nerfed from 1 supply to 2 supply is probably the thing that stands out to me the most.
NP ~ was some pretty big BS if you ask me. It was WAYYYY too powerful. Getting Thors, BC's, Colossus, Carriers, Motherships, for a ( at the time ) 75 mana spell that required no research. Bull****. I don't think its as good as it should be now, but I think 30 seconds MAX would be ideal. But if you're a Z player I can see why you'd selfishly want it back .

You didn't mention that Thor damage was actually a disadvantage too. It was more damage per shots but a much slower fire rate. They actually do the same DPS now, so they are better against small units now compared to better against big units before. Same goes for the Colossus which got a damage nerf but has a faster attack.
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post #1420 of 25315
Quote:
Originally Posted by poroboszcz View Post
Yea, now when 8 marines (400 minerals) can kill 3 void rays (750 minerals, 450 gas) without even focus fire'ing it seems much better.
It is much better this way. Also, you must not be an early beta player either. Void rays used to be even worse against marines. They had 3 phases of damage, first one being only 2 damage. Marines would kill them long before they ever got a full charge. The entire concept behind the void ray is its ability to kill high HP units, not low HP units. They are still a sick unit, but yeah they need to suck vs light units like marines.

Also if you charge you void rays up before engaging those marines in the number example you post it makes a big difference.
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