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[Official] Starcraft 2 Strategy & Discussion Thread - Page 1576

post #15751 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fortunex View Post
So Hydralisks don't seem very good at all, except as an emergency AA unit when you can't get Mutas up in time. What are they good for?
they are quite good in drops as they are very high dps, but aside from that they are very slow and weak so you need allot of roaches to tank for them, "good" ish vs imortals but honestly they are pretty damn bad they are like expensive marines that do less damage dont have stim and move like an old lady.

I lost a tvz the other day to thors + tanks + hellions, and if you can get the combo up it is incredibly strong but realistically he should never have gotten that far I just failed badly and kept engageing poorly. think the best thing Z can do when someone brings out thors is just avoid fighting the main army as much as possible T beceoms very imobile. keep him scared and in his base and take the whole freaking map.
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post #15752 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mwarren View Post
Thors deal with both roach's and muta's. I agree though, thor hellion doesn't seem good to me. Ghost mech (tank/hellion/thor/ghost) is really good though. You hard counter infestor and muta play with it.
The fact that thors have air attack doesn't mean they deal with mutalisks. The mutas just go far around your thors and take the mineral line (you don't have AA of course, cause you spent all your $$ on teching to thors )
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post #15753 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronnin426850 View Post
The fact that thors have air attack doesn't mean they deal with mutalisks. The mutas just go far around your thors and take the mineral line (you don't have AA of course, cause you spent all your $$ on teching to thors )
Only a bad player wouldn't have turrets in his mineral line.....

To the guy that said Hydra's are a bad unit, they actually have very high dps. They have a higher dps than stimmed marines.
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post #15754 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mwarren View Post
Only a bad player wouldn't have turrets in his mineral line.....

To the guy that said Hydra's are a bad unit, they actually have very high dps. They have a higher dps than stimmed marines.
Definitely true. If it hits 10min and I don't have any turrets or an ebay, I'll get one pronto and get 2 turrets near my minerals. I might even get the +2 armor upgrade if I have the money saved up and I have all my upgrades.

As for hydras, they have very high dps but their hp is a bit on the lowish side(80hp)

Edit:
TvsT played today:

Mech is pretty scary T_T I mean mass BFH+mass thors against MMTB O_o Poor marines never stood a chance XD

Also, played this TvsZ:

I made sure to constantly harass(aside from when I powered up) and then kept pressuring and pushing out, dropping, etc....

Edit2: Interesting, starting to see much more BFH in TvsT now T_T
Edited by BigFan - 8/14/11 at 4:04pm
    
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post #15755 of 25319
My TvP is at like 20% this season. I've dropped about 300 points in the last 2 weeks if you include bonus pool. 1-1-1 is only good on specific maps in specific spots, and I just can't figure out a good way to beat these 6 gate all ins, zealot archon templar builds into tech switches, ect ect. Seems like you just don't have enough gas to keep up with the awesome gas / mineral sink that is archon / zealot / templar. Not only that but the archons not being slowed means I've lost 100000 games because my medivacs get killed when I'm trying to kite.

I am at a complete and utter loss on that MU. My TvT and my TvZ have been doing great.
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post #15756 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomDash View Post
My TvP is at like 20% this season. I've dropped about 300 points in the last 2 weeks if you include bonus pool. 1-1-1 is only good on specific maps in specific spots, and I just can't figure out a good way to beat these 6 gate all ins, zealot archon templar builds into tech switches, ect ect. Seems like you just don't have enough gas to keep up with the awesome gas / mineral sink that is archon / zealot / templar. Not only that but the archons not being slowed means I've lost 100000 games because my medivacs get killed when I'm trying to kite.

I am at a complete and utter loss on that MU. My TvT and my TvZ have been doing great.
I hear you on that. To be fair, my 2nd exp(or 3rd base) wasn't in the most ideal position and I didn't start saturating it until much later. I should've also taken more bases and concentrated on harassing more but I sat back a bit and built up a marauder army knowing full well that we'll be engaging soon enough but I didn't count on losing the whole army while he lost 2/3 of his or so. I'm wondering if a marauder+ghost army would've faired better.

Possible strat?
Check for observer, cloak ghosts, snipe hts(so that you don't have to worry about them becoming archons or pulling them back to regain energy), emp archons and then stim and kite. At least you don't have to worry about storms and archons will have 100 less hp if not a lot more depending on how many emps you get off which means a couple of hits instead of like 30 or something -_- That and if you are getting marauders, you already have a tech lab on your rax so you just need a ghost academy and energy upgrade(cloak is optional). That's the only thing that comes to mind, maybe add in tanks with MM?
    
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post #15757 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mwarren View Post
To the guy that said Hydra's are a bad unit, they actually have very high dps. They have a higher dps than stimmed marines.
1 marine costs 50 minerals, 45+10hp, 1 supply and does 7/10.5dps
vs

1 hydra @100min 50gas, 80hp, 2 supply for 14.5dps

so a hydra costs at least 3 times as much (though i'd say way more than that as gas > minerals) and is barely twice as good, infact its not even twice as good, if you factor in stim.

that said it might be more fair to compared with a stalker, which cost 25 mins more and infact do half the damage while having twice the hp ofc stalkers get bonus dmg vs armour and are allot faster not to mention blink which is awesome maybe marines are just op ^^

hydras can be situational but there is a good reason that you only really see them as a counter to void ray harass. they are horribly expensive for a very weak unit. and they dont really fit with the current zerg meta of highly mobile armies fast counters and harassing. honestly would not be surprised to see the hydra either removed or entirely reworked for hots.
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post #15758 of 25319
I'm having real trouble countering any zerg. Until now - no single win TvZ. Some ppl say marauder, but I get 5 marauders when he comes with 20 zerglings and 6 roaches. Can't protect the expansion either, infestors own me soo bad.. And whatever I do, I always have 2x fewer units than the Z. WHat to do?
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post #15759 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronnin426850 View Post
I'm having real trouble countering any zerg. Until now - no single win TvZ. Some ppl say marauder, but I get 5 marauders when he comes with 20 zerglings and 6 roaches. Can't protect the expansion either, infestors own me soo bad.. And whatever I do, I always have 2x fewer units than the Z. WHat to do?
I'd have to watch your games, but how many rax are you on? really cant see how you only have 5 mara when he has that many lings/raoches unless your just not macroing at all. I very rarely build many marauders in tvz they are only good to soak banes and for dealing with roaches marines are a better option imo.

Some simple rules to live by (these dont hold true forever but by the time you should be ignoring them you should know when to)

1. Try to always be producing out of every building you own that includes your command centre.

2. always spend as much of your money as possible, If you are doing 1. and you are still gaining money build more unit producing structures.

3. Do not!!!!! queue up units to achieve 1&2 queued units cost you now but gets you the unit later, if you have enough money to queue units you have enough money to build another unit producing structure. It is better to have 1 production facility only being half utilised than it is to have a trust fund.
3.1 conversely do not build building you cant afford to use.

4. Try to keep your energy low on your CC, nexus or queen.

5. Buy upgrades. keep on top of them they are vitally important.

6. Expand and keep expanding. keep a presence on the map fast units like hellions are great for this.
6.1 try to stop your opponent from doing the same keep him scared and in his base.

7. Scout, know when you are strong and when your opponent is weak attack him at one of those points.
Edited by Dr216 - 8/15/11 at 6:26am
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post #15760 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigFan View Post
I hear you on that. To be fair, my 2nd exp(or 3rd base) wasn't in the most ideal position and I didn't start saturating it until much later. I should've also taken more bases and concentrated on harassing more but I sat back a bit and built up a marauder army knowing full well that we'll be engaging soon enough but I didn't count on losing the whole army while he lost 2/3 of his or so. I'm wondering if a marauder+ghost army would've faired better.

Possible strat?
Check for observer, cloak ghosts, snipe hts(so that you don't have to worry about them becoming archons or pulling them back to regain energy), emp archons and then stim and kite. At least you don't have to worry about storms and archons will have 100 less hp if not a lot more depending on how many emps you get off which means a couple of hits instead of like 30 or something -_- That and if you are getting marauders, you already have a tech lab on your rax so you just need a ghost academy and energy upgrade(cloak is optional). That's the only thing that comes to mind, maybe add in tanks with MM?
I already do all that. Tanks intvp after 15 min lolol bad
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