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[Official] Starcraft 2 Strategy & Discussion Thread - Page 1644

post #16431 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mwarren View Post
Getting ghosts and ravens wont work because both units are what I'd consider fragile and risk units, meaning that both can be focus fired very fast or taken out by feedbacks.
Ghost however have a brillitant risk/reward rating....end of the day in PvT ghost control vs Templar control both high risk both high reward. Ravens on the other hand are a little more wierd in tvp i like them with timming pushes and for killing off obs but I still havnt realy worked out a way to fit them into my normal play.
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post #16432 of 25319
So I just started using Spanishiwa's "Ice Fisher" build, and I'm really liking it so far.

Anyone who doesn't know about it but is interested:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...17|Spanishiwas


How do you counter cannons behind your mineral lines? I can't find ANYTHING to counter it, even if I scout it I can't stop it because of the mineral wall, and expanding elsewhere will usually put me far behind on most maps and be difficult to defend.
Edited by Fortunex - 9/4/11 at 2:40am
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post #16433 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fortunex View Post
So I just started using Spanishiwa's "Ice Fisher" build, and I'm really liking it so far.

Anyone who doesn't know about it but is interested:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...17|Spanishiwas


How do you counter cannons behind your mineral lines? I can't find ANYTHING to counter it, even if I scout it I can't stop it because of the mineral wall, and expanding elsewhere will usually put me far behind on most maps and be difficult to defend.
As Z? you need to react quickly and kill the pylons with your drones, if your realy pro you can abuse the drone drilling thing to do it super fast, but otherwise i beleive it is 5 drones with decent surface area to kill a pylon before it completes.

In order for him to block himself in with pylons and get cannons up he is investing a hefty amount into his attack so you can afford to loose quite a few workers and still come out ahead. or you can even reasonably double expo he just invested 150 for a forge, at least 300 for pylons and at least anouther 150 on a cannon. 600 minerals that early in the game is tight and requires a huge investment. He isnt going to be moveing out with any kind of army any time soon.

if there was one tip i would give to every new player its that you should never be afraid to pull workers to defend an early cheese move them with whatever army you have so you can overwhelmingly crush what he send and then get back to minning, cheese that fails puts you behind economically even if you kill a few workers.
Edited by Dr216 - 9/4/11 at 5:12am
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post #16434 of 25319
Against cannon rush I always cancel my nat, lair immediately and worm into their main n gg cause they have nothing.

edit oh ya and 1 good spine at the top of your ramp will stop any more probes or cannons getting near your main
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post #16435 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr216 View Post
As Z? you need to react quickly and kill the pylons with your drones, if your realy pro you can abuse the drone drilling thing to do it super fast, but otherwise i beleive it is 5 drones with decent surface area to kill a pylon before it completes.

In order for him to block himself in with pylons and get cannons up he is investing a hefty amount into his attack so you can afford to loose quite a few workers and still come out ahead. or you can even reasonably double expo he just invested 150 for a forge, at least 300 for pylons and at least anouther 150 on a cannon. 600 minerals that early in the game is tight and requires a huge investment. He isnt going to be moveing out with any kind of army any time soon.

if there was one tip i would give to every new player its that you should never be afraid to pull workers to defend an early cheese move them with whatever army you have so you can overwhelmingly crush what he send and then get back to minning, cheese that fails puts you behind economically even if you kill a few workers.

If you can get a surround, 4 drones will take a pylon out before it finishes. However the worker trick works with a contain (watch HD's tutorial, he actually shows that if you can't click back and forth fast enough to hold shift and click a min patch 5x then right click the pylon, bout 3 or 4 of these with 16 drones will destroy a pylon almost instantly)
post #16436 of 25319
http://www.gomtv.net/event/GSL1YearAnniversaryEvent.gom

not sure if this has been posted but gomtv is having a one year anniversary where all vods are free for 48 hours starting sept 4.

time to catch up on the aug. tournament.
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post #16437 of 25319
For those of you keeping score at home, I updated to friends list. So if you are looking for some new friends...

GO! Mingle! But I assume most of you know each other by now.
    
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post #16438 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr216 View Post
As Z? you need to react quickly and kill the pylons with your drones, if your realy pro you can abuse the drone drilling thing to do it super fast, but otherwise i beleive it is 5 drones with decent surface area to kill a pylon before it completes.

In order for him to block himself in with pylons and get cannons up he is investing a hefty amount into his attack so you can afford to loose quite a few workers and still come out ahead. or you can even reasonably double expo he just invested 150 for a forge, at least 300 for pylons and at least anouther 150 on a cannon. 600 minerals that early in the game is tight and requires a huge investment. He isnt going to be moveing out with any kind of army any time soon.

if there was one tip i would give to every new player its that you should never be afraid to pull workers to defend an early cheese move them with whatever army you have so you can overwhelmingly crush what he send and then get back to minning, cheese that fails puts you behind economically even if you kill a few workers.
I can fend off normal cannon rushes with little problem. But when he puts a pylon/2 pylons with a cannon or two behind my mineral line, I can't get any surface area to do damage, so the cannons are there until I get roaches unless I spend 10+ larvae on zerglings to whittle it down (assuming he doesn't just throw up more pylons), and then I'm behind in economy.
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post #16439 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fortunex View Post
I can fend off normal cannon rushes with little problem. But when he puts a pylon/2 pylons with a cannon or two behind my mineral line, I can't get any surface area to do damage, so the cannons are there until I get roaches unless I spend 10+ larvae on zerglings to whittle it down (assuming he doesn't just throw up more pylons), and then I'm behind in economy.
you say your scouting this? but you still cant deal with it? because really the second you see that pylon go down start taking it seriously and get your workers down there to start killing it, that way he has to at least build extra pylons and more than likely will do barely any damage beyond lost minning time.

If your really worried about it send your 10 ovie to above your nat and send a drone to follow his probe as soon as you see it in your base.

If he cannons your nat do not atack the cannons with a few lings at a time, build up a few more and go attack his base he cannot defend it he just spent all his money on pylons and cannons in your base.

I'm a little uncertain how early in the game this is happening as you dont seem to have lings out but you have not expanded yet and he has enough time and money to have a forge 2 pylons and a cannon. which is as far as I can tell only possible if he cuts nearly all probe production so you will have like 16 workers to his 8... so you can afford to loose upto 8 workers killing his stuff off.... shouldnt be a problem really especialy if you spot it early before the cannon has time to complete. you should i guess have 16 ish workers and 4 lings by the time his cannon does complete still plenty to crush it without being behind.

You can also just ignore it take your second where your third would normaly be keep macroing up and deal with it when you would normally take your third, that way you will be ahead massively in econ and can build a few extra spines to slow down any pushes on your "third". This is even more effective if your doing spanishiwa style as you should have a tonne of queens and spines with that build no early push he can transition into from that cheese should be able to touch you just dont get greedy.
Edited by Dr216 - 9/4/11 at 2:43pm
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post #16440 of 25319
It doesn't matter how many drones I pull off, only 2-3 at max can hit a pylon at the same time because of the mineral wall. Any normal cannon rush I can hold off easily.
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