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post #17641 of 25319
Love the shubbery on shakuras plateau with those bush things. I basically just won a ZvT because of that.

Banelings rolled into marines/seigetanks when they were moving and they had just gone past those center shrubs, didnt have vision. Killed most of his army with banelings. Then the roaches and mutas rolled in biggrin.gif
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post #17642 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by poroboszcz View Post

I really don't get FFE and why so many players like it. How is it any different from going AFK for 8 minutes?

Blinker, the way I see it is: the reason why Pro Protoss' use it nowadays, is not to go AFK for 8 minutes, but to fast-forward a couple minutes. Before FFE, it was what? 3/1gate sentry expand? When zergs figured out how to react to it, the benefits of the sentry expand wasn't as comparable to the cons.

With FFE, it's like fast-forwarding a couple minutes and putting pressure on the 3rd Zerg base (with 2 base economy). And to me, that feels better than putting pressure on the Natural (with 1.25 base economy and shi.tty Sentry DPS)

idk, pressuring the 3rd with better economy and DPS units feels better than an attack on the natural with lower economy and sentry-esque dps. High risk/High reward, son! But that's just me. When I saw players start FFE'ing on XN/Metal/Shattered, I was like "you can do that?" and apparently, you can. Before I used to do it on TDA/Shak/Antiga only, but now I try to practice it on all maps *vZ.
post #17643 of 25319
Been looking at getting this game for a while. Couldn't pass up the 50% off in the blizzard store.
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post #17644 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by yks View Post

Blinker, the way I see it is: the reason why Pro Protoss' use it nowadays, is not to go AFK for 8 minutes, but to fast-forward a couple minutes. Before FFE, it was what? 3/1gate sentry expand? When zergs figured out how to react to it, the benefits of the sentry expand wasn't as comparable to the cons.
With FFE, it's like fast-forwarding a couple minutes and putting pressure on the 3rd Zerg base (with 2 base economy). And to me, that feels better than putting pressure on the Natural (with 1.25 base economy and shi.tty Sentry DPS)
idk, pressuring the 3rd with better economy and DPS units feels better than an attack on the natural with lower economy and sentry-esque dps. High risk/High reward, son! But that's just me. When I saw players start FFE'ing on XN/Metal/Shattered, I was like "you can do that?" and apparently, you can. Before I used to do it on TDA/Shak/Antiga only, but now I try to practice it on all maps *vZ.

You can pressure zerg's third off 1/3 gate expand as well with the difference being that the third has just finished as opposed to being up for 5 minutes and fully saturated. FFE is like skipping the early-game to get into the mid-game knowing that you're already behind and have to do damage to get even. Also I feel like it relies to much on a surprise. If you fail to do any damage with your air/DT/gates timing you can as well leave the game. With 1/3 gate expand you don't rely on doing damage, it's enough if you force zerg to make units instead of drones.

I don't understand how FFE can win against well executed double expand from zerg and I don't think it's so safe on most maps either, as was shown in the MLG finals.
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post #17645 of 25319
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by poroboszcz View Post

You can pressure zerg's third off 1/3 gate expand as well with the difference being that the third has just finished as opposed to being up for 5 minutes and fully saturated. FFE is like skipping the early-game to get into the mid-game knowing that you're already behind and have to do damage to get even. Also I feel like it relies to much on a surprise. If you fail to do any damage with your air/DT/gates timing you can as well leave the game. With 1/3 gate expand you don't rely on doing damage, it's enough if you force zerg to make units instead of drones.
I don't understand how FFE can win against well executed double expand from zerg and I don't think it's so safe on most maps either, as was shown in the MLG finals.

Leenock vs Naniwa for example? Lol

But!! A scout eliminates all of that.
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post #17646 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by poroboszcz View Post

You can pressure zerg's third off 1/3 gate expand as well with the difference being that the third has just finished as opposed to being up for 5 minutes and fully saturated. FFE is like skipping the early-game to get into the mid-game knowing that you're already behind and have to do damage to get even. Also I feel like it relies to much on a surprise. If you fail to do any damage with your air/DT/gates timing you can as well leave the game. With 1/3 gate expand you don't rely on doing damage, it's enough if you force zerg to make units instead of drones.
I don't understand how FFE can win against well executed double expand from zerg and I don't think it's so safe on most maps either, as was shown in the MLG finals.

I feel the opposite. From the replays I've seen, if a zerg sees 1g/3g expo, they normally take their 3rd around the 11minute mark, if they're not being greedy (but lets assume they're playing safe). So if you plan to make some timing @ the 11-12minute mark to hit the 3rd (like you stated), your unit composition is very limited and lackluster when you open 1g/3g expand. So that's why you have to throw some pressure in the sub-11minute area @ the 2nd, to prevent excess droning; And I just don't like the options you're left with if you open with a gate opener to do that.

I just feel like FFE gives you more timings to hit with better unit compositions, than the typical/predictable sentry-timings when you do a gate opener. When I don't FFE though, I normally do top-ramp 1G-Expo's with my next 2 gates below-ramp. I hate 3gate expo's with all your gates top-ramp, it was super good back in March/April, but the game's evolved since then and zergs know how to respond/abuse that style now.
post #17647 of 25319
Just realised why there's barely any OCNers on SC2 for me.

Do I need to buy another copy of the game to play on the NA server? I can't afford that :s

Well, I submitted a ticket on battle.net to see what they have to say about it. Maybe I can weasel myself a free or cheaper copy so I can play with you guys.
Edited by Reflux - 11/25/11 at 2:16am
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post #17648 of 25319
where you from reflux?
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post #17649 of 25319
The NA copy of the game is $30 only for now
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post #17650 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarrisLam View Post

where you from reflux?

Scotland? It says right below to my name. I have an EU copy.

Just played some pretty tragic 3's, probably my fault that we lost but I still enjoyed it.
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