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post #18391 of 25315
Ok so some questions on specifics you mentioned above.

1) How do you defend against MM as protoss? This is more a 1v1 questions because I seem to lose to this combo a lot. I try colossus but I swear marines make them die so fast, even with the upgraded range. I just cannot get out enough colossi.

3) From what I've seen, we want the 9-10min mark. That's when he finally has enough units to join my Zealot/Stalker combo to go in. Problem is we are not terribly comfortable going out into the map. When I thought I was getting better, this was getting better. I had much better map control too!

4) Kind of same issue as #1, MM is a hard combo for me to counter. That and when I see roaches, I can never seem to get enough immortals out.

5) My teammate is considerably worse than I am, so he doesnt scan often at all.

6) I need to get better with my obs. I usually send them over, scout around and let them sit. I noticed if they die, I generally don't replace them, probably from fear of them just dying over and over.

7) I love forcefield, I just dont make Sentries that often because generally I need the gas for other things. I am out of practice using FF much as well. That and honestly, blink stalkers are my fav strat, they work 90% of the time.

8) This is one of my biggest problems. The strat I was working on was 2 Gate fast obs FE. For some reason I have gotten away from the FE> I Think it's because I don't know how to properly defend two bases in early game (6-12mins). Cannons seem very expensive and terrible for defense. Always seems opponents micros avoid cannons and do plenty of damage to basically win the game. 2 cannons at my mineral line still loses to a 2 ship drop from terrans.

9) Yes, we do this one way too much. My teammate is terrible at spending his resources, so at the 15-20min mark I usually get a couple thousand resources. I've actually been building more warp gates expecting this to happen lately. lol

I'm considering switching to terran. I don't mind Protoss but I feel terran will get me out of some bad habits. Such as saving some resources and spending them all at once on 4-8 Warp gates. I think it will help me use more hotkeys for buildings and continually produce while fighting. I haven't really decided on this yet, just an idea I had. Oh that and I have a buddy who was diamond before masters and his terran was incredible.
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post #18392 of 25315
Quote:
Originally Posted by sepheroth003 View Post

Ok so some questions on specifics you mentioned above.
1) How do you defend against MM as protoss? This is more a 1v1 questions because I seem to lose to this combo a lot. I try colossus but I swear marines make them die so fast, even with the upgraded range. I just cannot get out enough colossi.

I posted my Pvt 1 gate FE into 3 gate robo into 7 gate 4 colossus into HT .......... well I'm only plat but still you can check the game out and I posted I hold 2-3 rax 90% of the time (check a page back).
** EDIT ** charge lots with colo/ht rape rine/rauder
Quote:
Originally Posted by sepheroth003 
3) From what I've seen, we want the 9-10min mark. That's when he finally has enough units to join my Zealot/Stalker combo to go in. Problem is we are not terribly comfortable going out into the map. When I thought I was getting better, this was getting better. I had much better map control too!
Pushing is great, but holding a 6 min push to do a 9 min push can put you further ahead (key is holding) Me and Mavrick (plat players) in our second game went crazy 1 rax fe into BC (him) thor/rine (me) and held your push and were on 3 bases (each) and so far ahead it was crazy (we could've lost if we didn't hold)
Quote:
Originally Posted by sepheroth003 
4) Kind of same issue as #1, MM is a hard combo for me to counter. That and when I see roaches, I can never seem to get enough immortals out.

I like to do 6 gate into 1 robo into stalker, sentry, colossus (but zerg is ridiculous for toss so not even getting into that now)
Quote:
Originally Posted by sepheroth003 
5) My teammate is considerably worse than I am, so he doesnt scan often at all.
6) I need to get better with my obs. I usually send them over, scout around and let them sit. I noticed if they die, I generally don't replace them, probably from fear of them just dying over and over.
7) I love forcefield, I just dont make Sentries that often because generally I need the gas for other things. I am out of practice using FF much as well. That and honestly, blink stalkers are my fav strat, they work 90% of the time.

Blink stalks are useless vs mass lings ........ even burrowed roaches can be annoying to defend
Quote:
Originally Posted by sepheroth003 
8) This is one of my biggest problems. The strat I was working on was 2 Gate fast obs FE. For some reason I have gotten away from the FE> I Think it's because I don't know how to properly defend two bases in early game (6-12mins). Cannons seem very expensive and terrible for defense. Always seems opponents micros avoid cannons and do plenty of damage to basically win the game. 2 cannons at my mineral line still loses to a 2 ship drop from terrans.

NEVER Forge FE vs terrans or protoss (reapers/prism) ONLY vs Zerg and you HAVE to vs a FE zerg or you fall behind and DIE
Quote:
Originally Posted by sepheroth003 
9) Yes, we do this one way too much. My teammate is terrible at spending his resources, so at the 15-20min mark I usually get a couple thousand resources. I've actually been building more warp gates expecting this to happen lately. lol
I'm considering switching to terran. I don't mind Protoss but I feel terran will get me out of some bad habits. Such as saving some resources and spending them all at once on 4-8 Warp gates. I think it will help me use more hotkeys for buildings and continually produce while fighting. I haven't really decided on this yet, just an idea I had. Oh that and I have a buddy who was diamond before masters and his terran was incredible.


I noticed he likes to expo (tell him to make orbitals asap) so have him wall off (with a couple rines and scvs for repair) and FEED YOU MINERALS GAS

If he can't spend them you can. One of the best 2v2 (in gold/plat at least) is a zerg/terran FE feeding a 8 gate toss with blink/obs (rapeage I tell you pure rapeage



........ Vodka should be allowed to run for political office, I'd actually vote for it instead of our current choices

Sorry I'm drunk commenting ignore any/all irrevelant posts above
Quote:
Originally Posted by sepheroth003 
4) Kind of same issue as #1, MM is a hard combo for me to counter. That and when I see roaches, I can never seem to get enough immortals out.

I like to do 6 gate into 1 robo into stalker, sentry, colossus (but zerg is ridiculous for toss so not even getting into that now)

I was back in gold but sentry (5-6) + stalker + colo rapes roach, corrupter
Edited by CravinR1 - 3/7/12 at 10:22pm
post #18393 of 25315
I'll have to watch that replay to see how you defended MMM.

That game where he went BCs was rediculous. So your saying the key was we should have attacked earlier with all we had basically?

Our biggest problem playing you guys was scouting. I swear I told Luko one game to send marines to every mineral line out there, he sent 2. We saw one die, and I went over there to make sure you didnt expand to it. Again one of my problems is balancing obs/immortals/collosi. Thinking I need more than 1 Robo.

We actually played a 2v2 against PZ 8 Gate. We won surprisingly! It was close, and a good game.

If we do a push at 6min, what do you think we should have for units? Specifically quantities, so I can look at replays and see where we are at.
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post #18394 of 25315
now I'm not a good protoss player but I do play as protoss from time to time, so take from my comment only the things you find useful. You're probably better off asking cravin as he's a native protoss player

against MM... I would say


at early game :

1) forcefield to cut MM in half and zealots take care of the front half


at mid game :

2) immortal to take care of marauder heavy MM

3) colossi to take care of non-marauder-heavy MM, remember to micro your colossi so they can't just stim in and kill your colossi that easily. You don't need a large number of colossi as long as you don't let them stand there and die

4) research zealot charge to combo with your colossi. What this does is that not only do your zealots look scary as hell when they fly into the MM ball 10x faster than usual and tear crap apart, this also prevent the MM ball to stim run and kill your colossi. If you decide to do this though, make sure you also research armor upgrade for the zealots so that they last longer against marines
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post #18395 of 25315
Unfortunately I learned last night that my micro ability is severly deminished by our lag here in the desert. I downloaded the Masters Pack from blizzard, the one with 30 levels. I got to level 11 and I tell you it is impossible. I can tell because at the end of the countdown I can spam left click the left side of the screen just to get my HT to move, and he literally doesn't move for like 3 seconds, I get shot before he even moves lol.
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post #18396 of 25315
Quote:
Originally Posted by sepheroth003 View Post

Unfortunately I learned last night that my micro ability is severly deminished by our lag here in the desert. I downloaded the Masters Pack from blizzard, the one with 30 levels. I got to level 11 and I tell you it is impossible. I can tell because at the end of the countdown I can spam left click the left side of the screen just to get my HT to move, and he literally doesn't move for like 3 seconds, I get shot before he even moves lol.

basic micro isn't needed before gold

good micro isn't needed before platinum


I'm one of those guys just play with a laid back style. I dont follow any build orders in early game and basically just build to spend (no gas = marines, have extra gas = marauders, even more gas = tech to factory, if i have extra minerals i build supply depot first, even more minerals then I build a command center in my base, etc)


most of the time I just spend when I can, and when I feel like it, and I'm still gold / plat


it's not as hard as you might think
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post #18397 of 25315
I agree macro is more important than micro.
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post #18398 of 25315
yes, at least at the leagues we are in

most of the time having the biggest (and correct) army wins you the game with little to no micro, with the only exception being siege tanks and banelings.



dang man all these discussions make me want to play so much, unfortunately still at work redface.gif

got so tired / busy lately there were a few times I got in the game, went away to do something else, came back found out I wasn't at a good physical state to play something this intense and just got back offline without playing a single game, logged off computer and went to bed


we should organize a 4v4 some time, with 1 master player leading each side and battle it out biggrin.gif
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post #18399 of 25315
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sepheroth003 View Post

I agree macro is more important than micro.

Until you get to high diamond.

Once you are high diamond your macro and mechanics are supposed to be in the top 90%, then you start to realize bad choices, and bad engagements (micro) will make the difference in between you lose or win. thumb.gif
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post #18400 of 25315
Last night I played with my buddy from home. We were plat 2v2 in season 1 & 2. We only got into silver, not sure why he was playing worse than I and usually he's considerably better than me.

We also played 3v3 with my buddy from here in the desert. My buddy at home basically said he wont play with him again. My buddy here is pretty terrible lol. I'm really trying to help him, he's just not catching on that quick.
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