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post #18641 of 23622
Voids do counter BCs, you just have to watch the micro and make sure you build up your charge.

I've never really had trouble against banshees. I think stalkers do a pretty good job, especially with blink I chase them down.

I'm back into loving SC2. Been watching lots of games, and it actually let me connect and play last night. Went 5-2 in 2s last night thumb.gif
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post #18642 of 23622
I kept the mofu to 2 bases but 9 BCs with upgrades own stalkers and HT (he gets yamato to keep energy down)

I just want to own him


I think I'm going to 1 gate, 1 robo into 2-3 starport carriers.
Edited by CravinR1 - 3/27/12 at 12:43am
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post #18643 of 23622
I was joking with the carriers. Try 4 gate + warp prism (with proxy robo, depending on the map) to avoid it altogether. Any terran below master will die to it going 1 rax FE, and especially 1 rax FE into tech. You go 1 gas, zealot, stalker, robo, cut probes at 28 + 3 gates, warp-in 2 zealots then 4 zealots in his main.

If you decide to play macro game just get templar tech asap. 1 gate FE into 3 gate robo, forge + twilight then +1 attack, templar archives and charge (against marines) get like 3 obs, add 3 more gates, storm, +1 and blink if you can. EZ.
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post #18644 of 23622
If you know the build he uses and he knows the builds you usually use, cheese him in a way that makes it look like your doing your bog standard build. Or try and make him feel uncomfortable by making it look like your doing something else completely.

love doing that against people I play with allot.

I would also say if the guy is teching that much the best response is to punish him early he simply does not have enough resources to have allot of stuff and allot of tech, take advantage and cripple him early.

I would also suggest even going for a double gas steal its not cheap but it will sure mess with his timings if he is going that tech heavy.
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post #18645 of 23622
In 2s we are trying to attack at 8mins. I 4 gate and knock on the front door while my teammate (terran) drops on their mains. It has worked very well so far. After/during the initial attack we expo.

The build I was going for in 1s was 2 gate fast ob, FE. Anyone have a good 4 gate build order, or a llink to one?
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post #18646 of 23622
Quote:
Originally Posted by poroboszcz View Post

I was joking with the carriers. Try 4 gate + warp prism (with proxy robo, depending on the map) to avoid it altogether. Any terran below master will die to it going 1 rax FE, and especially 1 rax FE into tech. You go 1 gas, zealot, stalker, robo, cut probes at 28 + 3 gates, warp-in 2 zealots then 4 zealots in his main.
If you decide to play macro game just get templar tech asap. 1 gate FE into 3 gate robo, forge + twilight then +1 attack, templar archives and charge (against marines) get like 3 obs, add 3 more gates, storm, +1 and blink if you can. EZ.

Meh. I've held 4 gate warp prism while going 1 rax fe into tech pretty often. Just pull scvs and micro a bit and wait for a banshee or tank to get out, or a bunker to finish. The lower amount of units from going robo makes it easier to deal with and then you just roll over him with 2 base 7rax 2 fact 2 port

edit: the optimal 4gate should hit at 5:33 ingame time. gate, gas, pylon, cyber. 2 chrono on probe rest on cyber.
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post #18647 of 23622
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twistacles View Post

Meh. I've held 4 gate warp prism while going 1 rax fe into tech pretty often. Just pull scvs and micro a bit and wait for a banshee or tank to get out, or a bunker to finish. The lower amount of units from going robo makes it easier to deal with and then you just roll over him with 2 base 7rax 2 fact 2 port
edit: the optimal 4gate should hit at 5:33 ingame time. gate, gas, pylon, cyber. 2 chrono on probe rest on cyber.

Doesn't matter if you can hold a 4 gate. It's there to harrass while my teammate takes out production.

5:33 is way early. Swear I got warp tech at 5:45... Reguardless, if you're suppose to 4 gate that early it's not doable with a 2 medivac drop then. Timings are off.
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post #18648 of 23622
Rank 12 masters player here
Quote:
Originally Posted by HometownHero View Post

Yeah, between immortal busts, blink stalker all-ins, and roach bling all in, its tough to get a good macro game on the ladder. And from what I understand, it gets worse in diamond.

I think there is a misunderstanding in this thread.

Macro = keeping money spent while having strong worker production. Having good macro doesn't mean you can't do a strong timing push at 8 minutes before expanding. If you die to a 4gate because you fast expanded, you did not have good macro.
Cheese = a poor word that means different things to different players. The best definition is a build that would be easy to stop if there were no fog of war. This means a 4gate is not a cheese in pvp.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CravinR1 
OK guys help me out with my friends build. He 1 rax fe into 2 bunkers and then gets rines/banshees/bcs with upgrades. Seems like it'd be easy to bust but 2-3 bc's eat my stalkers and rines eat any immortals or sentries. Its so annoying. He also scans and snipes my obs so his cloaked banshees can clean me up. VERY annoying, this is platinum terran btw
At plat pvt level I suggest going 2gate robo into expand most games. Get a stalker out quickly and when you see he is expanding or has made a bunker, switch production into sentries/observers (which should help you build minerals) and expand asap. BC's are very rare, but busting is not the answer. Best option would just be to get fast ht's, lots of gates and observers, and take a fast 3rd. 3 bases making ht/zealot needs about 15 gates. You will want to feedback banshee/bc's and storm marines.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CravinR1 
I've tried 1 gate FE into 4 gate robo, his CLOAKED banshees rape my stalkers (after he scans and snipes my 2 obs with his mass rines)

Tried Prism with zealot/sentry/stalkers but his mass rines just own that early game What do u think about 4 gate robo with obs into 2 starport carriers on 2 bases ?Or are voids not better vs BCs?"
If he is going banshee, your robo shouldn't make a single immortal but should instead be nonstop observers up to 4. If he is doing a 1 base all-in (as it sounds like) you want to be getting to ht's with speed zealots. You can fast expand with a robo, get a citadel, and have templars done right as his attack hits around 9m. You won't have storm researched (unless he's really bad), but can feedback the banshees and use guardian shield over your zealots/stalkers to own his marines.

Voids/carriers will lose to vikings. If he is banshee/bc he will also have marines which own void/carrier.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CravinR1 
I kept the mofu to 2 bases but 9 BCs with upgrades own stalkers and HT (he gets yamato to keep energy down)

I just want to own him. I think I'm going to 1 gate, 1 robo into 2-3 starport carriers.
You should have 3 to 4 bases with about 20 gates by the time he has 9 BC's. An HT/zealot army will win this unless you are floating 1000+ minerals leading up to the battle and have poor macro. Mass voids or carriers will beat only-bc's, but building only-bc's is weird!
Quote:
Originally Posted by poroboszcz 
Try 4 gate + warp prism (with proxy robo, depending on the map) to avoid it altogether. Any terran below master will die to it going 1 rax FE, and especially 1 rax FE into tech. You go 1 gas, zealot, stalker, robo, cut probes at 28 + 3 gates, warp-in 2 zealots then 4 zealots in his main.

If you decide to play macro game just get templar tech asap. 1 gate FE into 3 gate robo, forge + twilight then +1 attack, templar archives and charge (against marines) get like 3 obs, add 3 more gates, storm, +1 and blink if you can. EZ.
I agree, although 4gate warp prism against a FE terran requires relatively precise FF's which is difficult for below masters players.
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post #18649 of 23622
Quote:
Originally Posted by sepheroth003 View Post

In 2s we are trying to attack at 8mins. I 4 gate and knock on the front door while my teammate (terran) drops on their mains. It has worked very well so far. After/during the initial attack we expo.
The build I was going for in 1s was 2 gate fast ob, FE. Anyone have a good 4 gate build order, or a llink to one?

I had a 2's team that was something like 80-10 last season (he was rank 1 masters and used to be in GM). We both played random and my favorite build was with protoss terran and a shared entrance. The terran goes 3rax marines and bunker defends the entrance while protoss goes 1 base double colossus. Terran does a big gas feed as the the robo's finish so protoss will have 600 gas for 2x colossus and thermal lance. Before 9 minutes the push is ~30 marines with combat shield and 4x ranged colossus. That build has brought grown men to tears.
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post #18650 of 23622
Sounds scary. Works especially since people tend to FE late in 2v2. If they expo early the econ advantage can be overcome.

Personally, as TZ, I like just doing whatever and feeding my teammate gas while he goes infinity muta. Force them to engage into our defensive position while he ravages their base with mutarisku. We've been quite a few GMs, even if we're both only mid-masters ourselves
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