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post #18681 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mwarren View Post

I don't know Doom. I've been having a lot of luck recently just going mass bio + ghosts with 6+ medivacs. Late game I just start to mass rax and add on reactors to atleast half of them. I just won a late game TvP on ladder and I had 16 raxes (a few with reactors) and I was able to just pretty much 1a over his army (he had chargelot/archon/ht with 3/3). Not enough terrans make enough marines or have enough barracks late game and vikings are a total waste because they're garbage when landed.

Did he get off any storms? Do you mass snipe, mass emp, or a bit of both?
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post #18682 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mwarren View Post

I don't know Doom. I've been having a lot of luck recently just going mass bio + ghosts with 6+ medivacs. Late game I just start to mass rax and add on reactors to atleast half of them. I just won a late game TvP on ladder and I had 16 raxes (a few with reactors) and I was able to just pretty much 1a over his army (he had chargelot/archon/ht with 3/3). Not enough terrans make enough marines or have enough barracks late game and vikings are a total waste because they're garbage when landed.

How did you end up in Diamond? I will try this no viking crap but I don't see it going well. I haven't played any NA Protosses, only Koreans, maybe they play different.
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post #18683 of 25319
I dont mean to be rude warren, but what is your rating?

Pure BIO + EMP will beat pure archon/gateway/ht, sure. But any number of collosus will roflstomp your army without vikings or some crazy 4 sided flank
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post #18684 of 25319
I'm no expert, but if you already have a starport with reactor for your medivacs anyway, would it never be worth it to throw in like 2 vikings (or more) anyway vs a colo ball? I saw Marineking doing it and he basically split them out far on either side of his army making it an inconvenience to pick them off, but still doing minor damage and being annoying with them...
Edited by Sainesk - 3/30/12 at 1:32pm
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post #18685 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twistacles View Post

I dont mean to be rude warren, but what is your rating?
Pure BIO + EMP will beat pure archon/gateway/ht, sure. But any number of collosus will roflstomp your army without vikings or some crazy 4 sided flank

I'm in diamond but only because I took a long break and stopped playing seriously. Right now im beating mid masters on ladder. Pure Bio + Emp beats any protoss deathball unit composition. Try it out in a unit tester. You can pretty much 1 a and just emp the toss's army and even if they have 5 collosus, you'll still come out ahead.

The great thing is that you also dont have to guess if they're going collosus, HT, Immortal, or any 2 base all ins because you'll always be ready with bio + medivacs. All that you have to do is split your army up and kite, Collosus does AOE damage so splitting helps significantly just like how splitting helps vs siege tanks. If you can spread your bio army out wide enough and stutter step the chargelots the collosus will do a minimal amount of damage.

The key thing to remember is that collosus on their own are terrible units, 3 (maybe even 2 marauders) stimmed marauders can kill a collosus, the key is killing the units at the front of the deathball as fast as possible so that you can finish off the gas heavy collosus and reinforce off of mass barracks. If your ground army is supply wise at least as big as the toss's army and you dont focus on getting any vikings, as long as you get off a few emps and have good spread + stutter stepping micro your bio units will melt their gateway units. Even if you get stormed once or twice if your units are spread out it wont do much damage as you can just pull them back.
Edited by Mwarren - 3/30/12 at 5:04pm
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post #18686 of 25319
since were talking about vikings... tongue.gif

sc22012033113023229.png

one of the achievements I thought I might not be able to get, have you guys ever had/got an achievement you wanted but thought you may not be able to do?
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post #18687 of 25319
I agree with Mwarren. An equally upgraded lategame terran army will roll over a protoss army with a little control and you can check it in unit tester. The most common mistakes I see from terrans are falling behind on upgrades, getting too many vikings, getting too many marauders, not getting enough ghosts and not utilising drops properly. Also imo until mid game the matchup is rather terran favoured and protoss has to play a guessing game. While gas openings are relatively easy to deal with, scouting a gasless terran leaves protoss blind until like 7-8 minutes. Is it 3 rax all-in with SCVs, 1 rax FE, 2 rax pressure FE, 1 rax into double CC, 1 rax FE into 4 rax marines pressure? On 4 players map if terran blocks the ramp in time it's even worse.
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post #18688 of 25319
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by poroboszcz View Post

I agree with Mwarren. An equally upgraded lategame terran army will roll over a protoss army with a little control and you can check it in unit tester. The most common mistakes I see from terrans are falling behind on upgrades, getting too many vikings, getting too many marauders, not getting enough ghosts and not utilising drops properly. Also imo until mid game the matchup is rather terran favoured and protoss has to play a guessing game. While gas openings are relatively easy to deal with, scouting a gasless terran leaves protoss blind until like 7-8 minutes. Is it 3 rax all-in with SCVs, 1 rax FE, 2 rax pressure FE, 1 rax into double CC, 1 rax FE into 4 rax marines pressure? On 4 players map if terran blocks the ramp in time it's even worse.

agreed. so this saying terran is underpowered now is weird to me. Every race has the same issue. Where one race lacks another race shines. THATS the beauty of having 3 different races. I believe that is a great job.
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post #18689 of 25319
TvP is probably 3-4x harder than TvT or TvZ for me. Look at the TeamLiquid thread about the lack of Terrans full of TvP woes, along with the fact that Terran has always struggled with Protoss on ladder. I am not saying Terran can't beat Toss but there is no doubt in my mind there are some obvious problems with the MU that involves Terran early game advantages due to gambling, and obvious late game problems due to Protoss just being better at it. It's not just me, it's a majority of Terrans active in the community who feel this way. I am not talking about pro level, but there are obvious problems here when PvT is P's best MU by far according to polls, and TvP is T's worst MU by far according to polls. Just ignoring the problems and saying its what makes the races unique won't change the fact that there is a problem.

Mwarren regardless you are still in Diamond right now, and you are literally the only terran I know who doesn't have problems.

I can take a clear look at my my TvT's and TvZ's and say, this is how I lost, I played poorly, or I got out played. With TvP there are so many moments I look at a game and I was playing better and there really isn't ever a point where I felt I could improve that much. The MU is flawed. I hear advice from Protosses like, you made too many vikings, you made too many ghosts, you made too little vikings, you made too little ghosts, you made too many marines, you made too many marauders, you made too little marines, you made too little marauders. Did anyone ever stop to think there is no easy clear answer for the right amount of numbers you need, even if you are scanning? The warp in mechanic lets Protoss reinforce with whatever they need ( almost ) on the fly, kind of hard to pic the right comp for things like that, not to mention it seems like their late tier units compliment each other far better than anything Terran has. Zealot + Templar alone is perhaps the most deadly value in the game.

TvP used to be my best MU, for the first year of the game being released, even when TvZ was supposed to be broken and all that.


So yeah, you can say all you want but look at the polls:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319705

uHuzP.jpg
XN76e.jpg
Edited by DoomDash - 4/1/12 at 9:27am
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post #18690 of 25319
who's tried Blizzards new game? http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/games/supplydepot/

so epic, shame it's only an April Fools joke, i'd love a game dedicated to the unsung heroes of Terran, the supply depot... tongue.gif
Edited by Sainesk - 4/1/12 at 10:15am
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