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[Official] Starcraft 2 Strategy & Discussion Thread - Page 1994

post #19931 of 22125
9/16/12 at 5:49pm
I'm sure he was being sarcastic. Protoss is by far the weakest race over all. With mothership and vortexes and luck the only way to beat a late game zerg. And bioball can annihilate a late game toss easily.

Terran will be much better in HotS but zerg still are the most OP, with protoss getting crap units. Theirs ranged flyer does NO damage (5 stalkers can take down a building faster than 5 of the Tempest. Where as siege tank/broods destroy everything.

I think its time to switch races since blizzard wants zerg to dominate. And they have for over a year. Watch any tournament. Even when MVP won the EU tournament it was him and 3 zerg, or maybe 2 terran and 2 zerg with MC the only protoss and was put out by a zerg.
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post #19932 of 22125
9/16/12 at 6:43pm
Aaaaaannndd this is why I quit SC2.
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post #19933 of 22125
9/16/12 at 8:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by poroboszcz View Post

I don't know. The skill difference within leagues seems to be bigger in the higher leagues but I wouldn't go that far. I can see a low master player beating a high master player with a lucky BO or cheese, but I can't see a gold player beating diamond no matter what.
Also, where is my beta key!? mad.gif
A high master player will go at least 10-1 against a mid master player, a mid master player will easily go 10-1 against a low master player. The top end of master league(people that are just below GM) will never lose a serious game to a low masters player. To beat these players with cheese they have to take risks, and you have to be very good at the cheese you're trying to execute. If they know your skill level they'll play safe, autowin against any cheese, and make up any economic disadvantage with skill.
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post #19934 of 22125
9/17/12 at 3:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RlndVt View Post

Was actually being sarcastic ;-)
Warning, RANT:
IMO zerg is overpowered. Broodlords unlimited free spawning is broken, having corruptors morph to BL is broken (mechanically), mutalisks are broken (I played a PvZ where I got surprised by mutalisks (my mistake) (three bases) he moved in once, killed some probes, built lings, did a ridiculous cost-ineffective suicide mission on my third, got broodlords and killed me. Literally nothing I could do.) Infestors is broken, be it infested terrans or fungal. I think it's ridiculous to see a mother ship become immobile by something like fungal.
Terran has it's strengths. Mech is showing good succes in TvZ. I'm not an expert on terran but I think that T's are playing TvP bio fundamentally wrong (but extremely well because stim is good) with mass MMM. Protoss cannot fight MMM after a certain critical mass point. Zealots get shredded, stalkers get shredded, immortals can get shredded. Only thing P has going is sentries for a few good force fields (don't get me wrong, this can crush T). Protoss reacts to MMM by teching to splash. Because of limited options this is storm or colossi. T knows this so should also tech. Getting some ghosts is always good. P clumps to protect high value units, EMP and move in. Get vikings if needed, get more ghosts if needed. But keep the MM 'small'. In small numbers MMM is extremely cost effective which is why drops are so good.
Protoss is obviously also broken. Forcefields are ridiculous, (but needed defensively, wait, I'm a genius! Read below). Colossi are broken, huge damage output, lots of HP, yet 'easily' sniped.
Forcefields.
It's perfect early game for defence but the problems arrise when Protoss moves out and can separate huge chunks offensively. What if forcefields lose effectiveness when not used on a Psionic Matrix power field! Be it that they then become destructible, have a shorter cooldown, or something else. They will basically just suck when not close to a pylon!
(Currently imagining crazy WP placements to get that perfect forcefield off).
This change wouldn't have too much effect on low level players right? Only thing they need to learn is place a pylon near their ramp...
PS.
It's 2:45 AM so this could all be rubbish and written poorly but feedback is welcome!

A nice post smile.gif

I'm mid-high-bronze and it's torture for me that players that low don't invest in macro and force me to cheese or die.

edit: just having said that, I had a wonderful game vsZ where we got to mid-game smile.gif I even won! tongue.gif
Edited by ronnin426850 - 9/17/12 at 4:20am
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post #19935 of 22125
9/17/12 at 5:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronnin426850 View Post

A nice post smile.gif
I'm mid-high-bronze and it's torture for me that players that low don't invest in macro and force me to cheese or die.
edit: just having said that, I had a wonderful game vsZ where we got to mid-game smile.gif I even won! tongue.gif
'

Uhm, what? Are you saying that it's impossible for you to win without a cheese? I'm sorry, but then you don't belong anywhere else than bronze. The first step of raising in the ladder like a baws is to survive a cheese and develop a stronger economy than the cheesing player (almost done without effort).
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post #19936 of 22125
9/17/12 at 5:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by OkanG View Post

'
Uhm, what? Are you saying that it's impossible for you to win without a cheese? I'm sorry, but then you don't belong anywhere else than bronze. The first step of raising in the ladder like a baws is to survive a cheese and develop a stronger economy than the cheesing player (almost done without effort).

I know what's being said here but all I can think about is a pair of gamers beating each other with blocks of cheese. XD
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post #19937 of 22125
9/17/12 at 6:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imglidinhere View Post

I know what's being said here but all I can think about is a pair of gamers beating each other with blocks of cheese. XD

Haha, I guess that's a solid theory.
Confession: I'm a bronze player too :blush: I just started, but I watch more videos than I actually play. So I don't play often, but with the knowledge I have, I rolfstomp whoever I play against for a couple of games, and go back to watching some videos. So I'd say that I might belong higher than I actually am right now, but I'm just not fighting for it biggrin.gif But in reality, there's actually not much cheesing going on. With terran, it's mostly some kind of mass MMM while they're turtling inside their natural, so there isn't anything else to do than expanding like hell. Some kind of mass gateway shenaningan is seen against protoss, and the majority of zerg players in bronze don't know what the hell they're doing biggrin.gif I'm a noob zerg player, but I love the different mechanics of zerg, compared to protoss and terran. Oh, and I practice my "Mental Checklist" a whole lot. If you don't know the concept, check out Day9's youtube channel. My theory is that I'll mostly do lots of reading and practicing things like mechanics and speed, and then play as much ladder as possible. I'll probably be stuck in bronze for some time, and then just win every single match up to a point where people are actually good biggrin.gif

What are you guys´ thoughts on something like that? Should I just play lots and lots of ladder from the beginning? I've played quite many games now, and I just don't feel like I'm improving a whole lot, without trying to improve things like my "mental checklist" (don't even know if that's an official thing biggrin.gif )
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post #19938 of 22125
9/17/12 at 7:32am
Watching kids is good but you only get better by practicing and laddering. I improved immensely playing 1v1 vs 2v2. When i started i 2v2 almost exclusively but now i mainly 1v1 unless a friend is on.
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post #19939 of 22125
9/17/12 at 8:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by OkanG View Post

'
Uhm, what? Are you saying that it's impossible for you to win without a cheese? I'm sorry, but then you don't belong anywhere else than bronze. The first step of raising in the ladder like a baws is to survive a cheese and develop a stronger economy than the cheesing player (almost done without effort).

lol what? Ok, try to take 3 expos in the first 10 min like a pro IN BRONZE and see if you won't get steamrolled by cheese.

And that nowhere near what I said. I said opponents in bronze are FORCING me to do cheese, because trying to develop economy vs them does not pay off. It's a huge gamble. A weaker cheese player might fail even if I sacrifice 10 marines for a command center, but NOT A CHANCE vs mass roaches or stalkers. As terran, invest in expos early on in bronze, and you're dead. Simple as that. You NEED cheese to climb up the ladder where the normal games are smile.gif
Edited by ronnin426850 - 9/17/12 at 8:54am
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post #19940 of 22125
9/17/12 at 9:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronnin426850 View Post

lol what? Ok, try to take 3 expos in the first 10 min like a pro IN BRONZE and see if you won't get steamrolled by cheese.
And that nowhere near what I said. I said opponents in bronze are FORCING me to do cheese, because trying to develop economy vs them does not pay off. It's a huge gamble. A weaker cheese player might fail even if I sacrifice 10 marines for a command center, but NOT A CHANCE vs mass roaches or stalkers. As terran, invest in expos early on in bronze, and you're dead. Simple as that. You NEED cheese to climb up the ladder where the normal games are smile.gif

That just sounds crazy. The key to actually advancing to somewhere far far away, where people aren't cheesing, is to SURVIVE the cheese. You don't become a better player by cheesing back. Lets say that you just got 6 pooled by a bronze zerg-player. If you didn't see it coming, well.. That's bronze for you right there. If you took the time to scout him and see that he doesn't drone up AT ALL or build an extractor. All you see is 6 drones and a spawning pool. Guess what's going to be knocking on your door. Given that you survived that, no matter how you did (without cheese), you're going to be ahead of him economy-wise, if you're playing just remotely well and knowing when to drone and when to build up your army.

Take 3 expos in the first 10 minutes? Sure, if the opponent DOES NOT CHEESE. Again, you can't simply make up your mind 100% BEFORE even seeing what the opponent is building, and just go 3 expo in the first 10 minutes REGARDLESS of what the opponent is doing. Again, scout ahead and adjust to the opponent. If you're being forced to do a cheese, you're going with the wrong mindset. Surviving a cheese is far more effective, as people in higher leagues (although seldom) also uses cheesy techniques. Cheesing doesn't simply mean winning without any skill. Skill also doesn't solely mean winning late-game, because the opponent chose not to cheese your sorry a**. Your actual goal should be -yes I'm repeating this- SURVIVING the cheese, and not just go cheese in the next game in order to try to win that way.

I'm not even close to being pro, believe me lol. But I kind of hope someone with a higher skill level can confirm this, because cheesing just because the opponent does, isn't exactly a way to improve.
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