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[Official] Starcraft 2 Strategy & Discussion Thread - Page 2081

post #20801 of 25315
Quote:
Originally Posted by frogger4 View Post

Hi there! I don't play Starcraft myself, so I figure this is the place to ask questions related to it tongue.gif

I've been asked to recommend a computer build to play Starcraft 2 at maximum settings, 1080p with a reasonable frame rate (no 120hz requirement or anything like that, just smoothly). What is the minimum processor / gpu combination (new hardware, not used) to meet this requirement? Since budget is not a huge concern, I will likely end up recommending something above the minimum, but I'd like to use that as a starting point.

Thanks!

 

I'd go with a minimum of ivy bridge i3, 7850, 4GB RAM, though i'd recommend an ivy bridge i5 (unlocked if planning to overclock), 7850, 8GB RAM (RAM is so cheap these days - Newegg for example has 4GB for $28, 8GB for $41, I think it'd be a real shame to not spend that little extra for double the memory). SC2 only utilizes 2 cores, but the i5 and extra RAM would be more lenient when it comes to running stuff in the background (Fraps, streaming programs etc.) as well as perform better in many other games.

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post #20802 of 25315
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKUL7R4 View Post

Why don't you play it on your "Livingroom rig" ?
Haha making a build for someone else, not me!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sainesk View Post

I'd go with a minimum of ivy bridge i3, 7850, 4GB RAM, though i'd recommend an ivy bridge i5 (unlocked if planning to overclock), 7850, 8GB RAM (RAM is so cheap these days - Newegg for example has 4GB for $28, 8GB for $41, I think it'd be a real shame to not spend that little extra for double the memory). SC2 only utilizes 2 cores, but the i5 and extra RAM would be more lenient when it comes to running stuff in the background (Fraps, streaming programs etc.) as well as perform better in many other games.

Thanks, that's pretty much much in line with what I was thinking. I really would like to be able to use an unlocked i5 (that is close to the ideal performer it sounds like). I'll try to find out if that could work into the budget.
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post #20803 of 25315
**** it, can't not reply to this...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethermir View Post

2 players, 3 races, 100+ units to possibly control individually. If anything, it's really hard to compare SC2 to DotA 2 or LoL. It's like comparing chess to basketball.

You don't control them individually, you generally have 2-4 groups of units. And I fail to see how that makes it strategically more deep... It makes it mechanically harder, which I completely agree with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by poroboszcz View Post

You gotta be kidding. You can't possibly compare an RTS game were you simultaneously control up to 100 units each with their own characteristics and abilities while maintaining economy, production and getting scouting information with a game where you run around with a single character with 4 skills always on the same map with the same objectives and which takes 20 apm to master. MOBA games are so popular because they're easy. Not CoD easy, but nowhere near SC.

Yes I can compare them.

No, not all 100 units have their own characteristics, they're chosen out of a pool of ~16 units and you have groups of them. Most unit comps have 2-4 types of units.

Controlling units, maintaining economy, production, and scouting are mechanically hard but not very deep, strategically. A lot of the "strategy" in SC2 is easily quantifiable and some strategies/decisions can be shown to be outright "better" than another. SC2 largely comes down to being a mechanics deathmatch. THIS ISN'T AUTOMATICALLY A BAD THING

DotA has far more variables. 100+ unique characters with different skills, 5 on each team, all with different players controlling them that are at different mechanical skill levels with different playstyles, with different synergies between the players, characters, and items chosen, etc. This increased amount of variables increases the amount of room for strategy, decision making, etc. and greatly changes how the game flows. THIS ISN'T AUTOMATICALLY A GOOD THING

Mechanically, DotA is very simple compared to SC2, and I'm not arguing that at all (don't know why you seem to think I said SC2 was easier than DotA), but in terms of strategy, DotA is simply deeper. I'm not saying either is better or worse, they're just difficult in different ways. I'm not bashing your precious SC2, it's probably one of the most mechanically difficult games ever released, and requires an insane amount of skill and mental fortitude. But to try and say it's strategically deeper than a game like DotA is just silly, imo.
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post #20804 of 25315
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKUL7R4 View Post

I'm playing on extreme graphics with an i5-2500K (non-overclocked), GTX 480, and 8 gb RAM (sig rig). I don't get any noticeable slowdown even in 4v4's. Then again I don't monitor my FPS. I'm sure the framerate drops a little, but it's not really perceivable.

On my system(3570K not overclocked+hd7970ghz+8gb ram... I'm on my phone right now so I am not sure if you would be able to see my rig or not...) I was curious what my fps would be and monitored it every now and then. And my fps would drop once the game gets to about mid to late game. Your fps is also most likely dropping, but I would side with you in that in the middle of the game I would notice the lower fps only once in a while. Usually I am too busy trying to stay alive, once I get better at the game I think I would want higher fps more often.
post #20805 of 25315
Quote:
Originally Posted by frogger4 View Post

Wow, is it really that CPU bound?
As an answer to my own rhetorically question, I just looked up comparisons on AnandTech bench, and I guess so...

Realistically, it looks like the budget will only allow for a less than $150 CPU, and a less than $200 GPU. Even though it is a cpu limited game, it looks like the graphics card still is important - at max settings, the benchmarks show a Radeon 7770 is just barely playable, while the 7850 handles it quite comfortably.

Given the CPU budget, I'd be considering either intel i3's or AMD FX 4300/6300. Overclocking is certainly on the table, so I am leaning towards the AMD options despite the better single threaded performance of an i3. What are people's thoughts on this with Starcraft 2 in mind?
It really is that CPU bound. I reduce all the CPU related settings on an overclocked i7 930, because of framerate drops in lategame.

If I was building a computer specifically for SC2 and nothing else, it would be a 3570k and a gtx 660. If it would play other games too, I might bump GPU up a bit.

How big is the budget? I expect you could build a rig around this for 800.
Edited by TranquilTempest - 3/5/13 at 6:50pm
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post #20806 of 25315
Quote:
Originally Posted by frogger4 View Post

Wow, is it really that CPU bound?
As an answer to my own rhetorically question, I just looked up comparisons on AnandTech bench, and I guess so...

Realistically, it looks like the budget will only allow for a less than $150 CPU, and a less than $200 GPU. Even though it is a cpu limited game, it looks like the graphics card still is important - at max settings, the benchmarks show a Radeon 7770 is just barely playable, while the 7850 handles it quite comfortably.

Given the CPU budget, I'd be considering either intel i3's or AMD FX 4300/6300. Overclocking is certainly on the table, so I am leaning towards the AMD options despite the better single threaded performance of an i3. What are people's thoughts on this with Starcraft 2 in mind?

Definitely go with Intel over AMD. An i3 will perform roughly on par with the best from AMD, while any i5 will perform better than the best AMD processors. Check this link:
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/CPU/129
     
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post #20807 of 25315
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fortunex View Post

**** it, can't not reply to this...
You don't control them individually, you generally have 2-4 groups of units. And I fail to see how that makes it strategically more deep... It makes it mechanically harder, which I completely agree with.
Yes I can compare them.

No, not all 100 units have their own characteristics, they're chosen out of a pool of ~16 units and you have groups of them. Most unit comps have 2-4 types of units.

Controlling units, maintaining economy, production, and scouting are mechanically hard but not very deep, strategically. A lot of the "strategy" in SC2 is easily quantifiable and some strategies/decisions can be shown to be outright "better" than another. SC2 largely comes down to being a mechanics deathmatch. THIS ISN'T AUTOMATICALLY A BAD THING

DotA has far more variables. 100+ unique characters with different skills, 5 on each team, all with different players controlling them that are at different mechanical skill levels with different playstyles, with different synergies between the players, characters, and items chosen, etc. This increased amount of variables increases the amount of room for strategy, decision making, etc. and greatly changes how the game flows. THIS ISN'T AUTOMATICALLY A GOOD THING .

Mechanically, DotA is very simple compared to SC2, and I'm not arguing that at all (don't know why you seem to think I said SC2 was easier than DotA), but in terms of strategy, DotA is simply deeper. I'm not saying either is better or worse, they're just difficult in different ways. I'm not bashing your precious SC2, it's probably one of the most mechanically difficult games ever released, and requires an insane amount of skill and mental fortitude. But to try and say it's strategically deeper than a game like DotA is just silly, imo.
I don't see what you mean by "deeper". At a high level, Starcraft is fundamentally about understanding your opponent better than he understands you. Good mechanics, and understanding what it's possible for your opponent to be doing(given what you've seen in game) are just a prerequisite.
Edited by TranquilTempest - 3/5/13 at 7:08pm
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post #20808 of 25315
Quote:
Originally Posted by TranquilTempest View Post

I don't see what you mean by "deeper". At a high level, Starcraft is fundamentally about understanding your opponent better than he understands you. Good mechanics, and understanding what it's possible for your opponent to be doing(given what you've seen in game) are just a prerequisite.

More strategies, more options to counter those strategies, more decision making in general.
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post #20809 of 25315
Welcome to the Jungle-collecting terrazine gas

I always find this mission hard, on hard (which is fine)

Tips?

Build some bunkers and AA at edge of base, or just build more marines/goliaths and move them out/back at the key times? And just how important are upgrades for marines/goliaths


I think I should build plenty more miners, the crystal supply seems like a lot just in starting base, but what about taking the 2nd crystal mine early. Do the Protoss 'base attacks' attack base1 or base2?

Enough of this, time to go find out
Edited by Kaltenbrunner - 3/5/13 at 7:39pm
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post #20810 of 25315
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fortunex View Post

More strategies, more options to counter those strategies, more decision making in general.
That doesn't sound any deeper, broader maybe. "Strategies" in SC2 have a huge number of variations, subtle changes in timing, composition, and risk. You can spend a hundred games refining a single opening, learning all the things it dies to, finding ways to deviate in response, and figuring out how to get the information you need in time to deviate.
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