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post #24681 of 25319
Sharing a little clip of one of my matches. Disruptors are a very cool unit so far, they force splits in every match up in almost every composition, and they force Terran to leap frog a little more slowly than normal, as well as scan ahead more often.


Also now that Cyclones are faster I really feel they have a place in the game. I had a bit less success with my ghost opener in TvP now that the meta is shifting (adept nerf), so now I'm doing a reactor barracks marine, 2 cyclone w/ upgrade range timing push. It's quite fun and powerful if you control it correctly. As I said when units are in low numbers is when Cyclones can shine the most, a well controlled attack can do a bunch of damage. They are very well rounded units, so opening with them is kind of safe. Been trying to go liberatorless in TvP, hoping that the Cyclones will deter the Protoss players from going into air (even though carriers would wreck them too), since Liberators seem to force air which I don't want.

DYIDeath have you been using Disruptors or playing LotV at all?


Last thought: I've been watching Stephano play lots of ZvZ's, and he kind of plays Lurker/Mass defense style, knowingly being behind in economy. He usually exchanges in his favor pretty well, so being down in bases isn't a big deal for him. Kinda cool to see Zerg have a mech like play style with the lurker (and not as lame as the swarm host).
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post #24682 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomDash View Post

knowingly being behind in economy.

Perhaps that's his form of Handicap mode biggrin.gif Otherwise it'd be boring.
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post #24683 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronnin426850 View Post

Perhaps that's his form of Handicap mode biggrin.gif Otherwise it'd be boring.

I think after thousands and thousands of insanely aggressive ZvZ's that can be a bit random, playing turtle Zerg could be quite refreshing.
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post #24684 of 25319
So Im trying to play the LotV now more often but from time to time the lag is awful.
Like a few minutes back. Games says 200ms and there is stuttering, too. Annyoing as hell.

Otherwise LotV is fun and I discovered how much fun the discrupter really is.
boom and everything is gone! biggrin.gif


And as it stands for performance in the 64 - bit client in Hots:

Its AWFUL! What has blizzard done? Hopefully it will turn out better in LotV
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post #24685 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandora51 View Post

So Im trying to play the LotV now more often but from time to time the lag is awful.
Like a few minutes back. Games says 200ms and there is stuttering, too. Annyoing as hell.

Otherwise LotV is fun and I discovered how much fun the discrupter really is.
boom and everything is gone! biggrin.gif


And as it stands for performance in the 64 - bit client in Hots:

Its AWFUL! What has blizzard done? Hopefully it will turn out better in LotV

They are already working on an optimization/performance patch for 3.0.
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post #24686 of 25319
All of the terran streamers I watch are complaining about balance in TvP. The carrier/tempest combo is really strong against mech. Even after the most recent adept nerf, one and two base warp prism adept all ins are still really powerful, which is having a huge impact on viable terran openers. Terran's feel forced into bio as a composition, for the third expansion in a row, with mines and liberators to supplement late game.

All the zergs say mech is OP in LOTV and lots of terrans say it is garbage. So that is in a weird place. The ghost is pretty OP right now so I see a lot of ghost bio compositions using the new snipe, with some liberators, to handle ultras and other tier 3 zerg tech. In TvT mech seems even stronger in Lotv than HOTS, so not too much change there. Tankivac micro seems pretty important for the terran that has more air control.

I don't play zerg, but I do watch some zerg streams. Some zergs seem to be struggling against protoss right now. Feels like protoss is strongest in lotv at the moment.

My biggest gripe with lotv currently is that I don't like any of the new units. Carriers aren't really being used like they are in broodwar. They seem to be massed or not used, and its lots of defensive turtling culminating in essentially a 1a attack down the middle of the map. Adepts are being more and more regulated as an early game unit with emphasis on scouting and harass, and are only in late game comps if as a counter against mass lings or marines, if at all. Liberators, balance wise, seems ok. Might need a nerf but not too far off. Personal preference, I find the unit's role in terran compositions confusing. I feel the same way about disruptions. The balance of the unit is pretty close, just overlaps a lot with all of toss other splash damage.

I think that the cyclone as a unit is completely broken. It isn't imbalanced, it is just poor design. It out ranges and out runs most everything, but you have to make its other stats terrible in order to compensate or it will just be massed. At best it will be a harassment/timing oriented unit for early game pushes. It does not have a place in any mature late game composition and I don't think it ever will. My least favorite unit in LOTV by far.

I do like the addition of the lurker, because zerg desperately need a lair tech siege unit and an upgrade path for hydras. The grenade on reapers is a lot of fun to use and opens up really interesting micro situations. The ravager is a pretty good concept, and a good upgrade path with the lurker for roach/hydra comps, but I am a bit worried that the ravager/lurker combo might end up becoming the future of zerg compositions. Nobody wants to see zerg make more long range seige units behind static D.

I feel like the new econ model is fine. Not perfect but close enough for what blizzard is going for. I am hoping that eventually as the game gets more figured out, that the new units will start filling more nitch roles. At the moment, most strategies in LOTV seem very one dimensional , which makes it, for me, not very enjoyable to watch. I am having a blast playing it though. Tons of units to micro and lots of novel game situations.
Edited by mothergoose729 - 10/15/15 at 9:57am
post #24687 of 25319
New Community Feedback Update! yay carrier nerf!
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/19288409725 Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Quote:
Hello everyone, let's get right into this week's update!

Beta in general
The game seems to be at a decent place now in terms of balance across all the skill levels currently within the beta. Our internal data is looking to be nearing 50% in all matchups of all skill levels, and looking at the feedback coming in both from the community side and the pro level side, the number of potential issues that we need to balance patch has greatly reduced as well.

It’s pretty clear that we’re slowing down on number of issues that come up in the beta, and we feel that having less and less things to tweak in game from week to week is definitely a good thing since we’re around 1 month away from release. We also reached out to various pro players regarding the small list of changes, and the general consensus we heard back was that the state of the game is pretty good right now + the small number of things we’re looking at for the next balance update looks to be in a good direction.

However, we’d like to point out once more that there will be a high chance that balance isn’t quite there yet at the pro level. Highest level pros generally don’t play in the beta as we’ve seen in both LotV and HotS betas, and we’ll just need to react accordingly post ship as potential issues come up. Although the balance at skill levels outside of the pro level is looking very good right now, we wanted to iterate that we’ll be paying very close attention to the pro level right after the game releases as professional gamers start playing the game for real.


Cyclone
The Cyclone isn’t quite there yet even after the last patch, so we’ve been exploring various potential changes. Where we are at currently that we want to roll out to beta is higher damage on lock on and lower health on Cyclone themselves. Instead of having Cyclones as all round units, we’re having a lot more success with them as intense micro units that can potentially have big wins when lock on and the fast movement speed are used effectively. Please let us know your thoughts on these changes once the changes go to beta tomorrow.


Infestor
We heard your feedback on wanting to hear thoughts on where we think Neural Parasite stands. Like you guys pointed out, we have discussed/explored replacing this ability, but due to the fantasy of having a mind control ability like this being such a cool factor, we were unable to locate an ability that feels just as powerful. Our current thought is that having changed the range back to 9 should have helped it see more play.

Theoretically, the ability should be a lot more powerful now since only siege ranged units can reach the Infestor, but because players haven’t really given the ability a serious try yet during the beta, we don’t quite know exactly where it stands. For example, if it’s the case that players just haven’t tried the unit (which looks to be the case right now), we don’t want to overbuff it. On the flip side, if it had been fully tested, and needs further buffs, we can make according changes.

A balance change such as this one, existing unit/existing ability numbers tuning, doesn’t necessarily have to be completely figured out during beta, and your call of focusing on more critical things such as new units, new abilities, new econ system, macro mechanics etc. does feel like it was the correct thing to do. We don’t think getting the numbers just right for this ability is one of the most critically important things we needed to solve during the beta, and we can work on this going forward even in the live game as well.

The other spells we belive are in a good place. Fungal Growth is situationally extremely powerful right now especially in combination with other abilities/units such as Blinding Cloud, the new Viper AoE damage ability, Banelings, Ultralisks, etc.

The main goal for the Infestor is not to have the unit see play in every single game of every matchup, but we want this caster to be powerful in specific strategies or scenarios.


Carrier
We definitely hear your feedback on the new ability making Carriers very powerful in the late game, especially from the higher level players currently in the beta as well as from the KR community. While we do agree that Carriers do look powerful, we’d like to see if we can push this type of late game strength on Protoss a little bit without overreacting with heavy nerfs. Like you guys point out, we believe the new strength of Carriers come from 3 areas: being able to not lose the DPS as each Carrier falls due to the launch Interceptor ability, faster build time of Carriers in LotV that allows players to have a smaller window of weakness before Carriers are massed, and interceptor leashing changes.

We believe the first is the biggest contributing factor, since full DPS of all Carriers remain in combat for a long duration. And the third is arguably a buff and a nerf depending on what the Carrier is trying to do. Therefore, we’d like to revert the build time reduction change we did to Carriers for now, so that Carriers remain nearly as powerful as they are, but it is more of a risk to mass Carriers for Protoss players.


Disruptor issues
We’d like to fix the bugs that allow the Disruptors to be moved while the damaging shot is active asap, because it could get in the way of beta testing this unit properly.


Adept
This unit is another area that we’re keeping close tabs on, but we don’t have immediate balance changes for in tomorrow’s balance update. It’s initially looking like nerfing their health a second time in combination with the warp in nerfs may not have been necessary. We’ll be looking to tune up the stats on the Adept a bit if need be, so please give us your feedback and thoughts on the Adept as well.

The current plan is to release another balance update tomorrow even though we only have a few changes because there aren’t as many issues as before, we don’t have a lot of time remaining with the beta, and we’d like to really focus down on fine tuning the game as best as we can before release. Thank you for your help as always, and please continue to play as many games of beta as possible so that we can work together towards a great release of LotV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mothergoose729 View Post

All of the terran streamers I watch are complaining about balance in TvP. The carrier/tempest combo is really strong against mech. Even after the most recent adept nerf, one and two base warp prism adept all ins are still really powerful, which is having a huge impact on viable terran openers. Terran's feel forced into bio as a composition, for the third expansion in a row, with mines and liberators to supplement late game.

All the zergs say mech is OP in LOTV and lots of terrans say it is garbage. So that is in a weird place. The ghost is pretty OP right now so I see a lot of ghost bio compositions using the new snipe, with some liberators, to handle ultras and other tier 3 zerg tech. In TvT mech seems even stronger in Lotv than HOTS, so not too much change there. Tankivac micro seems pretty important for the terran that has more air control.

I watch Vibe EVERY night and he says mech is not OP, but bio is. Also you can tell even if you don't agree with him almost every ZvT he has is vs Bio, so the meta says Bio is better. Also the Zergs I play keep telling me I should play bio. I personally think mech is in a okay spot, but parasitic bomb is a bit much late game. Still possible but def Zerg favored late.

As far as Carriers in TvP.... vs mech yeah tempest/carrier is completely unbeatable, but the patch that's incoming at least will make GETTING to carriers a little more risky, which I think is a perfect choice for now. I don't think Bio struggles that badly with carriers since you have the ability to punish protoss a lot more at almost every stage of the game, get more scouting information, and marines are quite good against interceptors actually.

I still play mech in every match up, I think it's over all best in LotV.... though in HotS I imagine TvZ was pretty easy compared to when I played it since Swarm Hosts got nerfed to crap.
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post #24688 of 25319
You are happy because an entire end-tier unit will become unusable / unused again?

How do you enjoy a game where 3/4 of the units are rarely used, and the most "powerful" ones (BC, Carrier) are never used?
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post #24689 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronnin426850 View Post

You are happy because an entire end-tier unit will become unusable / unused again?

How do you enjoy a game where 3/4 of the units are rarely used, and the most "powerful" ones (BC, Carrier) are never used?

Carriers will still be used and extremely good. I'm happy because the unit will be close to be being balanced, I don't want it nerfed into the ground. The Blue post clearly talks about that.

Also most units are used, and they are even addressing ones that aren't being used like Infestors.
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post #24690 of 25319
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronnin426850 View Post

You are happy because an entire end-tier unit will become unusable / unused again?

How do you enjoy a game where 3/4 of the units are rarely used, and the most "powerful" ones (BC, Carrier) are never used?


I did not read that in the patch update notes. They said they are only removing the shortened build time. The changes that made carriers strong again was an attack leash on interceptors and interceptors still fighting after the carrier dies.
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