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[Official] Starcraft 2 Strategy & Discussion Thread - Page 406

post #4051 of 25319
I've been saying it all along!
post #4052 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by burwij View Post
Just loaded up a build order tester and tried it out - skipped Orbital until the banshee and cloak were in production, constantly pumped SCVs, didn't get supply blocked.

~5 min: Starport finishes and floats to pre-made Tech Lab, starts Banshee + Cloak
~6 min: First Banshee finishes
~7 min: Cloak finishes, second Banshee a few seconds later

Exact times were 5:08, 6:08, 7:00 and 7:08, luls. I had exactly enough minerals and gas for the banshee + cloak, so I'm pretty sure that's more or less as fast as someone would be able to do it.

Obviously it'll be slower if he makes any units at all, so 7:30-8:00 is probably a good benchmark. Here's the replay for ****s and giggles:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9168698/Fast...shee.SC2Replay

Edit: I spawned Random like a champion, so it took me a second to figure out how to reload as Terran. The build order on the match screen probably isn't timed correctly.
Thanks. Im trying to get all of these timings down and when to expect for them so I can be better prepared. Id say 8+ mins is more realistic because it would be pretty dumb if the terran does not make any units before his banshee tech.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomDash View Post
OK, so I normally don't QQ, and I tell people not to QQ, but here goes my little QQ rant. Flame away:

The baneling is completely game breaking, specifically for TvZ. It is far too effective in the mid-to-late game against almost every Terran build, especially because bio is almost always required. The speed banelings require very little thought or micro compared to how much that would be or is required for the Terran player, and at the late game stage a unit that is 50/25 is incredibly easy to come buy and replace.

What do I want? Something completely unrealistic. I want the lurker to be brought back in its spot. It would fill the same role, as well as providing much more interesting and intelligent roles as well. Lurkers were far more dependent on unit placement, and they were a worth the risk only if used properly. Banelings are practically a no-risk unit. Losing something like a baneling has very little impact compared to losing something as expensive as a lurker. This creates better games!

Anyway, that's all.

Pretty cool that even a 1400+ Diamond Z agrees with me:
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/to...2933729?page=1
I think a slight baneling and muta nerf is on the way... what do you think about fungal growth?

I havent played zerg for a while so I cant really comment too much on it but from the games i've seen it does seem a bit OP. Terran bio is pretty ineffective against a good zerg player. If terran goes mech, it will allow the zerg a lot of time to get expos and their tech up where they can just out produce terran. Banelings and fungal growth is almost exclusively used against terran and zerg only and not protoss.

Well at least zerg players dont have to suffer any more

I think blizz should try to balance each race by making them as effective as the other two races during each phase of the game (early/mid/late game) instead of each race being more dominant during a particular phase
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post #4053 of 25319
FG is also good, kinda why they don't really need banelings to be so effective. Then pair FG with banelings and you can't even micro anymore. That's silly.
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post #4054 of 25319
But it requires micro to stop the enemy micro in the first place! And with good enough macro, banelings can be avoided (admittedly that's harder with upgraded speed but still)... and mutas nerfed? what in the hell would be nerfed there? o_o
post #4055 of 25319
I don't think mutas are the problem. It's pretty much banelings being able to easily take out any real mobile solution to mutas, aka marines. It's just so much easier to micro for Z at the point of speed banelings and even easier with infestors included. You cannot micro as Terran with FG, and some how it would require ghosts to counter Infestors... but Terran can't afford ghosts, thors, tanks, and mmm. Zerg also just has better macro mechanics in general.
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post #4056 of 25319
I thought the answer to mutas was thors... which take a ton of banelings to kill >_> build more thors!
post #4057 of 25319
Magic box mutas > thors especially when you can outproduce them. Day9 said something about nerfing mutas too. I think it's coming but I dont really care too much as I dont really play zerg any more.
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post #4058 of 25319
mutas are still fairly expensive and have an absolutely horrifying range... Damage isn't really all that high too. What in the hell would they nerf? There's nothing TO nerf without making the unit worthless.
post #4059 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tchernobyl View Post
mutas are still fairly expensive and have an absolutely horrifying range... Damage isn't really all that high too. What in the hell would they nerf? There's nothing TO nerf without making the unit worthless.
The splash. The one on one damage is fine.

Imagine having 30+ mutas flying around the map running back and forth between your bases killing your workers in a couple seconds. Thors are too slow to go back and forth. Youd have to throw up 15+ turrets at each base to even have any type of resistance. There's some other things too that Day9 mentioned but I cant remember.

Again, all nerfs should be done in SLIGHT amounts. The last thing I want is for a unit to be useless in the game (reaper).
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post #4060 of 25319
Do you happen to know what episode that was of day9? Yeah Thors are fine vs Muta... when you can catch them.

I might start getting the armor upgrade at the EB when I see muta.
Edited by DoomDash - 10/31/10 at 1:06pm
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