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[Official] Starcraft 2 Strategy & Discussion Thread - Page 410

post #4091 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThumperSD View Post
I think marines are fine but marauders need a slight nerf to 17-18 dmg to armored units
Quote:
Originally Posted by EmMure View Post
its not even stim its the fact that he can rebuild his whole marine set quickly and cheaply compared to me having to build colus or even dt's
You're comparing Tier 1 units to Tier 3 Units. Of course Colossi are going to build slower and cost more, they're TIER 3!

Now that people are used to dealing with an early MMM, it's pie. What's popping up a lot more for Terran early game for a bio-build is 5Rax MM+Ghost, then they would expand into Medivacs. That's hard to deal with because its a change of pace, not because of how imbalanced MM is.

But Protoss Tier 1 versus Terran Tier 1, it's all about positioning. The reason why Blizzard is looking into Stimmed Marauders and HT Storm is because those abilities allow for greater positioning.

It's not the Marauder's Damage, but the fact that they can get into position FASTER with stim, and prevent the opponent from getting into position with Concussive Shell. The concave and arc rules all.
post #4092 of 25319
Games from today for those who couldn't watch the live: http://www.ustream.tv/user/betascii/videos

The fake boxer is pretty damn good. Apparently it takes nothing but marines to win against muta/ling play

Edit: So it looks like there's gonna be Fake Boxer vs ITR and Boxer/Nada against zerg in the semis. Boxer vs Fake Boxer finals would be epic!
Edited by poroboszcz - 11/1/10 at 9:53am
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post #4093 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by poroboszcz View Post
Games from today for those who couldn't watch the live: http://www.ustream.tv/user/betascii/videos
+Rep
post #4094 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by yks View Post
You're comparing Tier 1 units to Tier 3 Units. Of course Colossi are going to build slower and cost more, they're TIER 3!

Now that people are used to dealing with an early MMM, it's pie. What's popping up a lot more for Terran early game for a bio-build is 5Rax MM+Ghost, then they would expand into Medivacs. That's hard to deal with because its a change of pace, not because of how imbalanced MM is.

But Protoss Tier 1 versus Terran Tier 1, it's all about positioning. The reason why Blizzard is looking into Stimmed Marauders and HT Storm is because those abilities allow for greater positioning.

It's not the Marauder's Damage, but the fact that they can get into position FASTER with stim, and prevent the opponent from getting into position with Concussive Shell. The concave and arc rules all.
I wouldn't say it's easy, but, it's not as bad as I used to think it was. Of course, you will still need a pretty large army and to target the marines with banes if you are Z in order to succeed, otherwise, marauders will take the damage. Personally, I make sure that I have a lot of units ready(slings+blings), so, that I can take down the MM ball easy otherwise I risk losing the game so early. As for P, you will have to split up their force using FF otherwise, you'll be overwhelmed due to the high dps and concussive shells. Anyways, I think using MMG is much harder for P than Z, since, EMP takes out all shields for P meaning 1/2 the hp is gone in some cases which makes it easier to take down a large P force. Most pros try to take down the ghost first if they are playing P because of EMP. Marauders already do amazing amount of damage for their counter(armored +20) compared to the constant 16 for roaches and 11(armored +15) for stalkers. Stim makes them that much hard to counter and with medivacs, it only becomes worse. Storm is powerful against MMM due to their packing, so, it's possible that blizzard might change how MM cluster to make them have some space reducing the effects of banes and storm's efficiency. Personally, I think marauders are fine the way they are, not sure about stim, that's up to blizzard. I just hope that if they do nerf banes, they don't make them a useful unit, although, at the moment, if you can catch your T enemy offguard, you can take his group of marines down with some banes pretty easy which I just did in my last game against a T

Quote:
Originally Posted by poroboszcz View Post
Games from today for those who couldn't watch the live: http://www.ustream.tv/user/betascii/videos
Thanks for the link. +REP Although, I would use spoilers for the results of the latest matches
    
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post #4095 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by yks View Post
Now that people are used to dealing with an early MMM, it's pie. What's popping up a lot more for Terran early game for a bio-build is 5Rax MM+Ghost, then they would expand into Medivacs. That's hard to deal with because its a change of pace, not because of how imbalanced MM is.
5 rax + ghosts off one base? With stim, conc shells and marine shields? Have a replay maybe?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigFan View Post
I wouldn't say it's easy, but, it's not as bad as I used to think it was. Of course, you will still need a pretty large army and to target the marines with banes if you are Z in order to succeed, otherwise, marauders will take the damage. Personally, I make sure that I have a lot of units ready(slings+blings), so, that I can take down the MM ball easy otherwise I risk losing the game so early. As for P, you will have to split up their force using FF otherwise, you'll be overwhelmed due to the high dps and concussive shells. Anyways, I think using MMG is much harder for P than Z, since, EMP takes out all shields for P meaning 1/2 the hp is gone in some cases which makes it easier to take down a large P force. Most pros try to take down the ghost first if they are playing P because of EMP. Marauders already do amazing amount of damage for their counter(armored +20) compared to the constant 16 for roaches and 11(armored +15) for stalkers. Stim makes them that much hard to counter and with medivacs, it only becomes worse. Storm is powerful against MMM due to their packing, so, it's possible that blizzard might change how MM cluster to make them have some space reducing the effects of banes and storm's efficiency. Personally, I think marauders are fine the way they are, not sure about stim, that's up to blizzard. I just hope that if they do nerf banes, they don't make them a useful unit, although, at the moment, if you can catch your T enemy offguard, you can take his group of marines down with some banes pretty easy which I just did in my last game against a T
I was going to say it a couple of times already, but you should seriously work on your text formatting skills. No offense, but you'll make everyone's life easier. Reading through your posts is really painful.
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post #4096 of 25319
Logging into SC2 right now and nothing happens...
I put in password and it goes to the next screen, but does not present me with my username and profile picture like it usually does.
Have exited out of game and restarted computer several times.
Any suggestions???
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post #4097 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by poroboszcz View Post
5 rax + ghosts off one base? With stim, conc shells and marine shields? Have a replay maybe?

Not off 1 base. I apologize for the lack of clarity; I just didn't want a wall of text for a tl;dr trying to explain a BO. What I meant with "expand into medivacs" was to emphasize how you're not rushing into medivacs. You set up your economy for 5rax and you throw in medivacs when you can support it. But your focus is early 5 rax play.
post #4098 of 25319
I dont think stim is the problem. Stim takes some practice as a smart player can bait a terran player into stimming for no reason. The price of con shells is the bigger problem. 50/50? HAH

Im liking the void ray nerf though. Seems a lot more balanced now without making them useless.
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post #4099 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by yks View Post
It's not the Marauder's Damage, but the fact that they can get into position FASTER with stim, and prevent the opponent from getting into position with Concussive Shell. The concave and arc rules all.
I stongly disagree. A lot of times during early pushes the MM doesnt even have stim before con shells. The damage to armored units is ridiculous. The damage to non-armored units are fine but marauders wreck armored units WAY TOO F'ING FAST whether you have a concave or not. You will have to sandwich the MM to gain positioning advantage but placing your forces at different locations is risky.
Edited by ThumperSD - 11/1/10 at 1:24pm
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post #4100 of 25319
It's a combination of everything, really. It has high HP for an early tier unit, does *twice* its normal damage against armored, can be stimmed, gets a passive upgrade which is insanely strong (50% movement speed debuff for 50/50... nullifies any other movement speed upgrade that are often more expensive. I'm looking at you, banelings). Only costs 2 supply, and is 100 crystal and a measly 25 gas.

Part of the problem, on top of all these strengths, is how easy it is to replenish their numbers. Oh, your MM got taken down by something (but you took down 50% of their force)? Here, have some more marauders coming right behind!

The effectiveness against t2 and t3 units on top of the high replenishment rate kinda makes it a target for nerf cries, and i figure, actual nerfs in the future.
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