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post #4111 of 25318
I remember when I had to correct you that blueflame does no bonus vs banelings... or the light bonus period. After I noticed that you didn't know that, I noticed it more and more from Zerg players. Kinda shocking that people still don't know their own units. I find Terran players who think that Storm stacks too so it's not just Z players.

On that note.... what if banelings were changed to light?
Edited by DoomDash - 11/1/10 at 7:32pm
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post #4112 of 25318
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomDash View Post
Looks like Overclock.nets very own oktoberfest is in the top 200 of NA. Pretty cool that I went 2-3 against him in the finals .

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/1026297#blog

Darrenc.
Wow. Shame he doesn't post in this thread. Maybe he at least reads it for lulz.

I'm generally under impression that really good players aren't keen to share their opinions, builds etc. Just look at TL.net where 80% of posts are like complete nonsense and top players barely ever say anything, at least in strategy forums.
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post #4113 of 25318
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post #4114 of 25318
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomDash View Post
I remember when I had to correct you that blueflame does no bonus vs banelings... or the light bonus period. After I noticed that you didn't know that, I noticed it more and more from Zerg players. Kinda shocking that people still don't know their own units. I find Terran players who think that Storm stacks too so it's not just Z players.
Hardcore fans of the series tend to forget that SC2 was released 12 years after Brood War and the large majority of the player base is (I would assume) new to the game. I played WoW for 4 years; my only previous RTS experience was ~2 weeks of Warcraft II and some SC single-player. While some of the longtime fans of the series know every match-up in and out, most people are just being introduced to this.

I knew Psi Storm didn't stack, but I didn't know Banelings weren't classified as light units It's pretty counter-intuitive considering they morph from the poster child of cheap and efficient light units.
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post #4115 of 25318
I wish they were light.


but about your comment I really don't see being new to RTS or the SC universe mattering in what we were specifically discussing. The light / Armored stuff is actual new ( kinda ) to the series. So if you played since the game came out you had just as much time as me to learn everything. I'm not saying people who don't know everything are stupid or anything, I'm just saying it's funny when people think Hellions are some how the counter for banelings when in most situations they are risky and rather ineffective.

I played lots of SC1 and BW until about 2002. I had a great understanding of the games concepts immediately and was in Diamond within a day of playing, even coming late... so it does help in that sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by poroboszcz View Post
Wow. Shame he doesn't post in this thread. Maybe he at least reads it for lulz.

I'm generally under impression that really good players aren't keen to share their opinions, builds etc. Just look at TL.net where 80% of posts are like complete nonsense and top players barely ever say anything, at least in strategy forums.
Well I would consider myself pretty close to his skill level but with less games played ( less exp ). I post on forums sharing my exp / strats.
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post #4116 of 25318
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomDash View Post

Well I would consider myself pretty close to his skill level but with less games played ( less exp ). I post on forums sharing my exp / strats.
But you play terran and you're extremely biased.

Sure there are exceptions, but you don't often see very high level players willing to share their knowledge.
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post #4117 of 25318
I wonder when the Terran race jokes will go away. .

Also I do see some doing it. qxc for example made a bunch of cool videos of his games and why he did what he did. He may not exactly post it, but he makes a video instead. Day9 did the same thing in his own way with his show.

Anyway you guys staying up for Nada vs Boxer!?!? I know I am.
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post #4118 of 25318
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomDash View Post
I'm guessing you've never seen Thor's vs Ultras before because its a pretty one sided rape fest. Ultras are the counter to anything armored on the ground really.

*Edit* Decided to test things out in unit tester for you. All 5 on 5 battles.

Unmicroed Ultras off creep vs Target firing Thors = Ultras win with 3 left

Unmicroed Ultras on creep vs Target firing Thors = Ultras win with 5 left

Unmicroed Ultras off creep with the +2 armor upgrade vs Target Firing Thors = 3 left

Unmicroed Ultras off creep vs Thors with 250 MM cannons = 4 left

Unmicroed Ultras with full upgrades vs Thor's with full upgrades = 3 left

Unmicroed Ultras with Thor's spread out in a line that would take up most of a screen ( so they are not touching to prevent splash ) = Thors win with 3 left ( both with and without full upgrades )

So basically the only way that Thor's can come out ahead is if you have a Maginot Line that is not on the offensive, in a open map allowing that room.
TBH, I haven't done much experimentation with ultras. Most of it is from people who did those tests themselves, since, I'm not even getting time to play some games myself. It does make sense that thors win if they are in a line to reduce splash and obviously focus firing. Also, chokes are very common in SC2 maps and do I hate it This means that since thors have range, you can use chokes to your advantage against ultralisks. All I was saying was that one on one, they can be pretty even although, thors have many advantages(air, cannons, range, etc....) and come out much much earlier which means that they are good for their costs

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomDash View Post
I remember when I had to correct you that blueflame does no bonus vs banelings... or the light bonus period. After I noticed that you didn't know that, I noticed it more and more from Zerg players. Kinda shocking that people still don't know their own units. I find Terran players who think that Storm stacks too so it's not just Z players.

On that note.... what if banelings were changed to light?
Well, I only recently started paying more attention to the different types of armor, prior to that, I was mostly considering damage with the random look at a unit's armor. I've only played 60-70 games in league, some of them ended rather quickly when I lost to MMM ball or zealot+stalker+sentry/colossi combo. As for banes, well, zlings are light, so, it's kinda odd they aren't. For storm, I thought it stacked, I mean didn't it in SC1, since, I vaguely recall players double casting storm?

Quote:
Originally Posted by poroboszcz View Post
But you play terran and you're extremely biased.

Sure there are exceptions, but you don't often see very high level players willing to share their knowledge.
That's pretty much the problem with anyone commenting about the race they play. Regardless of how much they try, they'll always be a bit biased about their race. Personally, I approach the game from a side view and put my bias aside. Either way, I do agree that banes are powerful. If you are able to kite them and you should be able to with stim for T, along with the fact you can use ff to seperate them and then take them on one by one for P means that they can be dealt with, just not easily, but, it's doable

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomDash View Post
I wish they were light.

but about your comment I really don't see being new to RTS or the SC universe mattering in what we were specifically discussing. The light / Armored stuff is actual new ( kinda ) to the series. So if you played since the game came out you had just as much time as me to learn everything. I'm not saying people who don't know everything are stupid or anything, I'm just saying it's funny when people think Hellions are some how the counter for banelings when in most situations they are risky and rather ineffective.
I was just thinking about how they can change banes so that they don't nerf their damage and changing them to light is the only possibility I could come up with so that they can still hard counter marines without losing their touch.
Maybe slightly reduce splash damage when they explode, but, otherwise, any other method of nerfing them might be a bad idea and will definitely cause QQing since banes were in SC2 from its release date and there hasn't been any complaints until now
As for the armor stuff, well, I was mostly into the campaign until end of Sept or so when I started playing some practice games and eventually jumped into the league. I have a lot to learn about T and P and still need to improve my speed and macro/micro with zerg although it's becoming much better from when I started Well, banes only do 20 damage to hellions and hellions have speed, so, even though you can't one shot them with hellions, you can at least reduce their hp from afar and use marines/marauders to finish them off. Of course, this requires good micro but it can be done

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomDash View Post
I played lots of SC1 and BW until about 2002. I had a great understanding of the games concepts immediately and was in Diamond within a day of playing, even coming late... so it does help in that sense.

Well I would consider myself pretty close to his skill level but with less games played ( less exp ). I post on forums sharing my exp / strats.
I never played competitively(in league) in BW. I mostly played against friends or against AI with friends on the fastest map possible, although, I did play some matches on lost temple and some other blizzard maps and recall losing most of them. The only match I can remember was when I was attacked by cloaked wriaths and I had NO clue what they were, lol. All I saw was something killing my scvs and attacking my cc and they were moving around in the minerals I have NO clue that they could be cloaked and I was focusing on infantry. Most of my focus was on SP and some MP as well and I played on and off
    
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post #4119 of 25318
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomDash View Post
I wonder when the Terran race jokes will go away. .

Also I do see some doing it. qxc for example made a bunch of cool videos of his games and why he did what he did. He may not exactly post it, but he makes a video instead. Day9 did the same thing in his own way with his show.

Anyway you guys staying up for Nada vs Boxer!?!? I know I am.
Time for match? If at 7 or so, then I can probably get up to watch it, otherwise, I'm sleeping in I think most pros are hesitant to give their build due to people copying it although that doesn't mean that they will be as good as them at it
    
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post #4120 of 25318
Nov 02, 2010 19:00 KST(GMT+9)
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