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[Official] Starcraft 2 Strategy & Discussion Thread - Page 423

post #4221 of 25319
Get online its game time ladies!
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post #4222 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThumperSD View Post
Because my 9 probe does not get there before I am ready to build my gate/forge
Not sure how that is possible since usually when I see the 6pool I already made a gateway.
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post #4223 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by thiru View Post
Not sure how that is possible since usually when I see the 6pool I already made a gateway.
I think you actually both agree on the same thing.
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post #4224 of 25319
In the last State of the Game JP asks what's the most overrated and underrated units. These are the answers.


iNcontrol
Underrated - High Templar "I actually have to show [my students] Feedback, because no one has seen it"
Overrated - Mothership "Oh, yay! He got a Mothership, awwww it's dead."

IdrA
Underrated - Mutalisk "Peaple say they're good, but they're better than that"
Overrated - Roach/Ultralisk "People think roaches are better than they are after that 4 range thing"

NoNy
Underrated - Warp Prism "If you have a support bay, the speed uprade's only 100/100 and then they move so fast"
Overrated - Mothership "Same as iNcontrol"

Day[9]
Underrated -Zealot "The Zealot in general, but the Zealot with charge, yeah."
Overrated - Marauder "Marauders ****ing suck. They're good for early game harass but... I'm really surprised people are still talking about the Marauder"


I agree with the Warp Prism / Templar being the most underrated, and the Marauder being the most over rated. Marines > Marauder. Marauders are a one trick pony.
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post #4225 of 25319
Quote:
I agree with the Warp Prism / Templar being the most underrated, and the Marauder being the most over rated. Marines > Marauder. Marauders are a one trick pony
Maybe marines > marauders in TvT but in PVT marauders are essential, and they don't do too bad with the shells and stim against those measly 4 range roaches either. Imo it is still the best tier 1.5 unit in the game. It will destroy any unit the same tier or below no problem, with the stalker being it's only tough fight. I think what makes them so deadly is if you are losing against rauders there is no way to retreat some of your army..it's just all dead.
Edited by cory1234 - 11/3/10 at 5:27pm
post #4226 of 25319
Marines > Marauders in ever match up IMO. Certainly more important. In TvZ they are OK against roaches, but are generally just to soak up damage. In most situations marines are actually better unless it's like late game hard counters. Day9 talks about how they are pretty much meat shields for marines, and that's pretty much true. Just remember that 2 marines > DPS of 1 marauder even with his bonus, and with out the gas.
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post #4227 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tchernobyl View Post
Because you guys keep talking about all kinds of crap as if this was a IM service!
lol, well, describe crap? Is posting a replay and stating your strat crap? Getting pointers crap? Discussing strats used by pros crap? Is talking about the different units and their abilities crap? Talking about unit counters crap? I think you get the point, lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomDash View Post
In the last State of the Game JP asks what's the most overrated and underrated units. These are the answers.

iNcontrol
Underrated - High Templar "I actually have to show [my students] Feedback, because no one has seen it"
Overrated - Mothership "Oh, yay! He got a Mothership, awwww it's dead."
.....
I agree with the Warp Prism / Templar being the most underrated, and the Marauder being the most over rated. Marines > Marauder. Marauders are a one trick pony.
- I disagree with the mutas one. Maybe they are underrated a bit, but, putting a couple of marines+2-3 turrets near your mineral line deters them. I've tried to harass bases and once I've seen a couple of turrets decided against it and tried to find another opening. Point is their cost of 100/100 is a lot considering that 2 marines which cost 100 can take it down. Of course, in groups and with ground support, they are powerful, no doubt about it, but, their gas cost is pretty high IMO.
- I do agree though that the roach is overrated by a lot. While the range did make a difference, it's not as big of a change as many think it is
- Maybe the mothership is overrated, but, the extra time it buys you in a battle can be valuable and can mean the difference between winning and losing. Not too long ago, I played a game with Heezay and we mistimed our attack. I ended up losing all my ultras and slings along with him losing his mothership and stalkers. Had we attacked and used it for cloaking our units, then my ultras would've teared through all the hydras and MMM balls around the time it would've went down giving us the game
- I disagree with the overrated marauders from day9, they are a great unit especially with conscussive shell and stim researched. It makes it that much hard to retreat if you're losing a battle and their damage against armored is phenomenal for a unit of it's tier/size. Yes, 2 marines > 1 marauder but the cost of a marauder along with its hp and damage makes it a viable unit even mid-late game.
    
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post #4228 of 25319
What day9 means is the marauder is almost specifically the marine meat shield, which is true. Conc shell is a great support for marines as well. Marauders themselves are pretty bad though.

As for the Muta comment. Muta's >>> Turrets in any decent number. I find turrets only deter muta for the early game. But again it depends on how much you invest into them. Generally a pack of 12 muta's will take out 3 turrets with out losing 1 muta. I think I may get that armor upgrade though if I see that many.

Also, I'll give you the context that idrA was referring to when he mentioned the roach being over rated. He meant specifically vs Terran because you should ALWAYS go muta, and pretty much never roach. He is basically saying roaches are amazing, with range 4, but still no where near muta amazing. He brought up players like Sen need to ditch roach play for muta because it's that much better.
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post #4229 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomDash View Post
What day9 means is the marauder is almost specifically the marine meat shield, which is true. Conc shell is a great support for marines as well. Marauders themselves are pretty bad though.
Personally, I still think they are decent units, but, yes, I also agree that they can be used as meat shields for the marines as well. They also counter roaches and stalkers as well as some other units. The fact that they lack AA is probably their biggest weakness. I've seen opponent go mass marauders to which I get mass mutas, lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomDash View Post
As for the Muta comment. Muta's >>> Turrets in any decent number. I find turrets only deter muta for the early game. But again it depends on how much you invest into them. Generally a pack of 12 muta's will take out 3 turrets with out losing 1 muta. I think I may get that armor upgrade though if I see that many.

Also, I'll give you the context that idrA was referring to when he mentioned the roach being over rated. He meant specifically vs Terran because you should ALWAYS go muta, and pretty much never roach. He is basically saying roaches are amazing, with range 4, but still no where near muta amazing. He brought up players like Sen need to ditch roach play for muta because it's that much better.
Well, true, however, you can add a thor and some marines, most zerg players including myself wouldn't think into a base with a couple of turrets, couple of marines and a thor. hmm, I've never actually checked to see how far 12 mutas or so would do because by the time, you take one or two down, your opponent will bring his marines near the cc, so, other than taking down a turret, he hasn't suffered much loss. I do agree that they are great for map control though and for harassement purposes and of course, perform better in numbers Against terran, going mutas is pretty much a must. They take out a wide range of units such as marauders, tanks, vikings, banshees, etc.... easily. I do think it's a good idea to have a roach or two with the army though, you'll increase your attack strength and they can act as meat shields as well
    
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post #4230 of 25319
Well roaches are needed, idrA just said to muta first .

Yeah I mean its suicide to attack into turrets, marines, AND thors. I'm only talking when using muta's intelligently, aka when he isn't sitting back on defense.
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