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[Official] Starcraft 2 Strategy & Discussion Thread - Page 550

post #5491 of 25315
Quote:
Originally Posted by yks View Post
omg, this week's State of the Game is probably my favorite.


hahaha, i'm listening to it while i type this.

painuser vs nony and incontrol. arguing about who has it worst. is the BEST PART.

the highlight was banshee vs DT.

pain user was like, "DT's are better than banshee's"
and incontrol was like, "WHAT THE ****!"
and nony was like, "How many games in tournaments were won becuase of Banshee's? Like 20. Now how many games were won because of DTs? Like 1"

and a lot lot more.
Here's Fruitdealer getting beaten by ogsInCa's DT's and blink stalkers. Inca just played defense until he got the DT's out. Fruitdealer gg'ed immediately when the DT's attacked. He wasn't ready for them.
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post #5492 of 25315
Wow, I hate laddering sometimes. Every single game today I played against at least 2000+ ( I'm mid 1800's at best right now ), and every single time besides once I was slightly favored. Please just show our MMR bnet, because at least that way it will make sense. I hate being favored, nothing worse than losing 15 points to someone who is 2000+.
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post #5493 of 25315
Quote:
Originally Posted by banded1 View Post
its no problem
i assumed something was up when you didnt respond. did you need my info for the add or did you see it earlier?

game on metalopolis
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1...ce-metalopolis
zerg player used burrowed units only
ok, I'll look back to find your number or if you type here, it's save me the time

Quote:
Originally Posted by burwij View Post
What exactly do you mean by "I went the opposite of that" - 10 pool? If he blindly went 15 hatch/14 pool without scouting against Z he's kind of an idiot. Scouting with the 8th or 9th drone is key in a ZvZ since early game boils down to a game of Pool Chicken. Keep tabs on when he drops his pool and you can pretty easily go for an economic opening - even hatch first depending on rush distances. With that being said, if you see an early pool with your scout, you better abort your plan in a hurry.

What's the timing on your initial OL getting to his base on SS? I think I have the map banned
What I meant is that since I anticipated a zling attack and considered the long attack distance, I went for pool 15 then hatch 15/14, although, I made my hatch elsewhere since I weighed the chance of it being discovered and was rather confident it wouldn't be. He did scout using his OL and then a drone and saw the zlings coming. They arrived in his base just as his pool finished and I was only able to take out some drones and saw his exp, so, really my attack just gave me intel on what he was planning, along with getting his drones to stop mining for those precious seconds

For scouting, I just moved my OL into his base and looked for a pool early on and when I noticed his drone count+no pool, I was 100% positive that he went for an early exp. I wasn't able to take advantage of him expanding early due to the long distance and since he was probably ahead on macro. I think his biggest mistake was making a 3rd hatch rather late and also the fact that he didn't tech up fast enough, because, once I saw those roaches, I knew for a fact that getting a lair could mean GG

I do need to mention though, that it was anyone's game. He could've won had he made his 3rd hatch faster and kept on pushing, since, I didn't even put down a roach warren, used slings for my attacks and counters and with a large number of roaches, slings are easy to take out

Good question on the timing, TBH, not sure, I started to move the OL right as the game started and we all know how slow those things can move I got there after he went for an exp, maybe 5 min in?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomDash View Post
How many I had didn't really matter because I ran into a problem. If you notice I tried to chase after his drones but the hellions were actually unable to fit between his two buildings at the bottom of the ramp! So I could not get through! Also, I'm not sure I recall what happened to them, but Hellions are actually pretty bad against speedlings with out blue flame and in small numbers. Unless they all line up, but speedlings never really line up.
Yes, I did notice that you tried to squeeze through but couldn't. My point was that if you were able to wait for the 3rd hellion, then you could've roasted his slings with minimal loses and likely prevented a surround, but, I would need to look again at the reply to see if there were other holes they could fit through. As to what happened to them, well, you left them attacking the pool or nest and his slings got an easy surround I will admit though that slings are harder to kite due to their fast speed(4.7 which is darn good ). Maybe a hellion speed upgrade would help, but, then hellions moving at 4.7 speed would be crazy, lol, they'll likely grow wings like slings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas Lamer View Post
Here's Fruitdealer getting beaten by ogsInCa's DT's and blink stalkers. Inca just played defense until he got the DT's out. Fruitdealer gg'ed immediately when the DT's attacked. He wasn't ready for them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUMqV...eature=related
If you don't get an overseer, a spore crawler, basically any form of detection, it's pretty much gg, because, dt's power lies in the fact that they are cloaked and their damage is amazing(45 damage if I recall correctly) I've lost a game where an opponent wraped 5-6 dts into my base and even though I was able to take them down, he attacked with some zealots+stalkers from the front after his initial assault and with barely any units to defend, it was GG

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomDash View Post
Wow, I hate laddering sometimes. Every single game today I played against at least 2000+ ( I'm mid 1800's at best right now ), and every single time besides once I was slightly favored. Please just show our MMR bnet, because at least that way it will make sense. I hate being favored, nothing worse than losing 15 points to someone who is 2000+.
I think someone on SC2 forums mentioned it best. Blizzard keeps it hidden, first and foremost due to the fact that if you see your MMR, you might not like it and for opponents in the lower leagues, it might cause them to quit the game as a whole, basically, it can be very discouraging. The second reason might be because people will abuse it, but, not sure how.
    
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post #5494 of 25315
tag is banded
code is 526

    
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post #5495 of 25315
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=169830



The MMR / Match making system takes into account division skills as well? Wow.
Edited by DoomDash - 11/17/10 at 1:19pm
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post #5496 of 25315
what does it say? TL blocked at work
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post #5497 of 25315
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhed5 View Post
what does it say? TL blocked at work
In spoiler tags, quoted. Same guy who made the MMR threads on TL.

Quote:
On November 18 2010 05:22 Excalibur_Z wrote:
This week's Top 200 also included the win-loss records of each player at the time of the snapshot, which means we can use their match histories on Battle.net to work backwards and determine their points. Here are the results. The bolded lines are verified entries, meaning I was able to confirm that their current point values properly matched up to their match history. The unbolded lines are entries that could not be verified because they've either played too many non-1v1s or more than 25 1v1 games such that I couldn't go far enough back in their history.

What We Know:
We know that divisions are not equal, confirmed at Blizzcon.
We know that the Top 200 is generated by points without factoring in "the skill of your division."
We know that the Top 200 is not based on MMR or any other factor except points (including bonus used), confirmed at Blizzcon.
We know that the only difference between SC2Ranks' point rankings and the weekly Top 200 snapshot is interspersed divisions.

Quote:
BlizzNameRecord SnapshotRatingDivision
1Katari1102-6712834Kelerchian X-Ray
2SeleCT551-2112794Medic Mu
3ROOTslush604-3572775Medivac Alamo
4TTOne572-3412734Medic Mu
5AlLaboUtyOu650-4592905Ehlna Bravo

6EGStrifeCro475-3102703Akilae Omicron
7Boyardee365-1992927Urun Charlie
8CrunCher348-2402664Medic Mu

9HasHe861-6322646Medivac Alamo
10Cheese382-2312645Akilae Omicron
11dKiLLeR285-1842639Hartley Quest
12LiquidHuK479-1702639Medivac Alamo
13Baz1296-10912633Argo Echo
14MasterAsia348-2272623Kelerchian X-Ray
14ViBE327-2172623Medic Mu

16EGIdrA227-822622Medic Mu
17OpTiKzErO543-4042530Selendis Quest
18ROOTqxc314-1242605Observer Mars
19Warden731-6062845Boros Uncle
20EGiNkA419-2802583Medivac Alamo
21Slurgi417-3382581Talematros Eta

22Cranklodocus600-4742570Horner Chi
23DuFFmAn611-4972569Medivac Alamo
24Perplexity561-4572568Medivac Alamo
24InflowMini924-7902883Scout Kilo

26ROOTdrewbie269-1312564Medic Mu
27nEAnS573-4242536Medic Mu
28Fenix306-1402558Immortal Yankee
29dde318-2292557Turaxis Yankee

30NamhciR379-2132580Observer Mars
31PainUser260-1182549Pylon Kappa
32BrokenRhythm758-5932547Medic Pepper
33TheZealot104-532546Overmind Victor
34lovemyRM470-4052540Nagglfar Zed
35theognis335-2442661Feld Lima

36Zelniq988-7632442Medivac Alamo
37Denelorn190-792545Victory Bravo
38Gretorp309-2142526Immortal Yankee
39DeAtHRoW361-2142521Medic Mu
40Kangwook490-4002772Feld Delta
41DalaiLameR106-622518Uraj Dixie

42InflowLooky831-7152488Medivac Alamo
42JJYAN201-982512Medivac Juliet
44Mankeyz280-2092485Turaxis Yankee
45sixjaxNewsh94-362505Victory Bravo
45PiQLiQ998-8122630Shuttle Nu
47CocoA520-3892502Observer Mars
48stev376-3082454Horner Chi
49BananaMilk123-702495Hartley Quest
50EGMachine221-1462492Kelerchian X-Ray

51OrgA202-1282504Akilae Omicron
52InflowLinko479-3542475Uraj Omega
53LiquidTyler203-1072483Zekrath Sigma
54Mark509-3882481Turaxis Yankee
55Magulina110-582480Medivac Juliet
55OnEMoReTrY315-2332480Uraj Omega

57ThisIsJimmy553-4372459Akilae Omicron
58Yakero152-472478Hartley Quest
59LiquidRet128-432477Phash Kappa
60NeverDawn207-1392476Tassadar Charlie

61EGAxslav562-3942514Pylon Kappa
62BoO496-4042370Uraj Omega
63SoFtBalL132-652464Uraj Dixie
64Arena190-1372462Victory Bravo

65BloodThirsty969-8772360Argo Echo
66Malice648-4662459Medic Mu
67Broom193-1262458Moratun Sierra
68LiquidNazgul179-1122457Medivac Juliet
69bLuR525-4372580Infestor Pepper

70Ngry217-1412438Akilae Omicron
71Agh630-4972441Medic Mu
72sLeepisT397-3232439Immortal Yankee

72Levin627-4662503Medivac Alamo
74ReSpOnSe743-6282455Observer Mars
75CellaWerra351-2132433Raven Zed
76ROOTDdoRo801-6362683Shuttle Foxtrot
77Taurent345-1972429Akilae Omicron

78MnMVadar691-5882487Observer Mars
79AlexCMoi384-2602426Lenassa Dixie
80EnvY575-4702424Observer Mars
81dayvie485-3652738Scout Kilo
81sikatrix396-2932423Medic Mu
81NadaViKinG273-2142423Tassadar Charlie
81Rigid621-4902423Medivac Alamo
85iKillBanshee290-2322417Overmind Victor

86SPeCiaLiST354-2822418Phash Kappa
86Nadagast258-1662416Talematros Eta
88Capoch439-3302413Observer Mars
89Humble236-1762408Turaxis Yankee
90Vtmisery369-2922407Observer Mars
91Mura482-4202404Medic Mu
92rsvp481-4152465Argo Echo
93DarkCell215-1552399Zergling Quest
94FlyingSheep323-2412524Infestor Pepper
94prosu423-3512398Lenassa Dixie
94ReasoN174-1062398Raven Zed

97LuckyFool464-3742423Medic Mu
97SKU188-1282520Infestor Pepper
99Pookie450-3792391Immortal Yankee
100LegendofBert547-4712390Medic Mu

101Xog774-6862513Feld Lima
102FireZerg483-3932385Medic Mu

102lime279-2162382Observer Mars
104ROOTCatZ728-5882467Medivac Alamo
105AhhBoxxah151-842379Talematros Eta
105scvrusher240-1742631Urun Charlie
105ZpuX97-512379Medivac Juliet
109junny265-2002377Talematros Eta
110mystik379-3162376Akilae Omicron

111MnMEdward520-4422463Medivac Juliet
112giX273-2022374Immortal Yankee
113EGLzGaMeR523-4062368Medivac Alamo
114toddman614-5102367Medivac Alamo
115owmygroin963-8722365Medic Mu
116CNBgrtmn194-1392364Talematros Eta
116RaNgeD714-6272616Augustgrad Psi
118RedAlert336-2652361Lenassa Dixie
119VTAttero175-1092359Lenassa Dixie

120TaurosPKM412-3472461Feld Lima
120StyGGeN230-1722353Raven Zed
120nGenMaFia123-802353Hartley Quest

123VTClonze202-1402338Medic Mu
124SiN504-4042415Medic Pepper
125Drew345-2702275Medic Mu
126Time935-8252343Medivac Alamo
126RuFF891-7622619Augustgrad X-Ray
126Namkung302-2422343Akilae Omicron
129NyDGMMA1522-14032627Raven Chi
130Destiny732-6562326Observer Mars
130makoplux591-5372338Uraj Omega
130hotsauce641-5452338Medivac Alamo
133RuNei184-1362333Observer Mars

133Kyhol500-3942475Observer Mars
133Toosneaky573-4912333Akilae Omicron
136ostojiy335-2452328Medivac Alamo
137Blade326-2652327Tassadar Charlie
138spekkiO121-702325Overmind Victor
138lamp257-1742325Turaxis Yankee
140jungik236-1902324Moratun Sierra
140ROOTBubba331-2442324Medivac Alamo
140EGiNcontroL565-4242324Medivac Alamo
143CombatEX733-6482632Goliath Beta
144Nostra866-7662442Spectre Zed

144TriMaster226-1782348Moratun Sierra
146AoNe631-5472405Phash Bravo
147Antimage384-2942313Medic Mu
148nexx141-892436Corsair Uncle
149mTwDIMAGA80-432309Medivac Juliet

149Kalu120-662363Rimes Tau
149aloOla123-392309Overmind Victor
152mOOnGLaDe182-992308Pylon Kappa

153SlayerSBekHo210-1602300Zergling Quest
154Fuzzyweebit383-3202304Pylon Kappa
155Shpongled330-2692303Medivac Alamo
156Polar376-3192301Akilae Omicron

156Lombrastic521-4562315Akilae Omicron
158Kanako432-3432615Valerian Uncle
159ButteryLlama600-5042392Medic Mu
159ACERGAMEGMMA1458-13462627Mohandar Romeo
159VTSwu283-2312341Argo Echo
162Clefairy166-1122297Akilae Omicron
163sKsYeN487-4042545Arcturus Mars
164Sungpa492-4202608Dragoon Sierra
164Monkey666-5442293Medivac Alamo
166REBUKED723-5532354Argo Echo

167MsButtloaves147-962371Uraj Dixie
168Perfect506-4282351Executor Phi
169Dhalism640-5462404Medic Mu
170GoGoGo87-502286Overmind Victor
171EtsurLizzuma593-5192471Shakuras Uncle

171RaNGirLxD320-2572309Kelerchian X-Ray
173Ganon186-1292450Void Ray Tango
174VTZerker554-4882291Medivac Alamo
174ROOTFayth290-2182409Infestor Pepper
176NerZhul431-3722339Argo Echo

177Maker651-5702599Infestor Pepper
178LeeHyoRi365-2882272Hartley Quest
179Azz429-3542272Immortal Yankee
179AcidiC548-4812272Medivac Alamo
181Mykill270-1822332Medivac Charlie

182Fenneth319-2622262Dominion Beta
183tehredbandit359-3072252Zergling Quest
184cVen359-3002254Medic Mu
184Lost402-3452265Medic Pepper
184rSLagLovah204-1472259Observer Mars
187Aoratha410-3522264Uraj Omega
187Renson225-1802264Uraj Dixie

189Ikki373-3172276Akilae Omicron
190ShivanD228-1762301Lenassa Phi
190McLoviN304-2532262Uraj Omega
192Dog227-1752261Medic Mu

193Andro631-5542224Observer Mars
194OdiN617-5482239Tassadar Charlie
195Shoey450-3892237Immortal Yankee
196MattDamon639-5562252Observer Mars
196VTWhiplash326-2772252Observer Mars
198AlwaysYou227-1752250Shuttle Nu

199VTGoddeR569-4952553Void Ray Tau
200SeaofStorms172-1202245Talematros Eta
Keeping in mind that the Top 200 is by points before division modifiers are applied (because divisions are not equal), this tells us a few things:

* Kelerchian X-Ray and Medic Mu are equal in rank.
- Medivac Alamo and Akilae Omicron are probably equal in rank to Kelerchian X-Ray and Medic Mu
* Ehlna Bravo is a rank below Kelerchian X-Ray
* Urun Charlie is a rank below Ehlna Bravo
* Boros Uncle is a rank below Kelerchian X-Ray and Medic Mu, but it is not known whether it is equal to Ehlna Bravo or Urun Charlie

Based on these findings we can create a kind of division hierarchy:

S-Rank: (modifier: 0 *note that this only means that no divisions with a lower modifier were found, so we'll use 0 until a higher-level division emerges)
Medic Mu
Medivac Alamo (likely)
Kelerchian X-Ray
Akilae Omicron
Hartley Quest
Horner Chi (likely)
Talematros Eta (likely)
Horner Chi (likely)
Immortal Yankee
Turaxis Yankee
Observer Mars (likely)
Pylon Kappa (likely)
Medic Pepper (likely)
Overmind Victor
Nagglfar Zeg (likely)
Selendis Quest (possible)
Uraj Dixie (likely)
Medivac Juliet (likely)
Uraj Omega
Zekrath Sigma (likely)
Phash Kappa (likely)
Tassadar Charlie
Victory Bravo (likely)
Moratun Sierra
Raven Zed
Lenassa Dixie
Zergling Quest (likely)
Shuttle Nu (likely)

A-Rank: (modifier: +63)
Argo Echo
Executor Phi

B-Rank: (modifier: +126)
Feld Lima
Infestor Pepper
Corsair Uncle

C-Rank: (modifier: +189)
Ehlna Bravo

D-Rank: (modifier: +252)
Boros Uncle
Urun Charlie
Feld Delta
Shuttle Foxtrot
Augustgrad Psi
Augustgrad X-Ray
Raven Chi
Goliath Beta

E-Rank: (modifier: +315)
Scout Kilo
Dragoon Sierra

Not Sure of Rank:
Mohandar Romeo (maybe C or D?)
Arcturus Mars (maybe C or D?)
Lenassa Phi (maybe A?)

Some more interesting data points:
* 2905 Ehlna Bravo is between 2734 and 2703 in S-Rank (between +171 and 202 points)
* 2568 Medivac Alamo is equal to 2883 in Scout Kilo (+315 points)
* 2845 Boros Uncle is between 2605 and 2583 in S-Rank (between +240 and 262 points)
* 2772 Feld Delta is between 2521 and 2518 in S-Rank (between +251 and 254 points)
* 2480 Uraj Omega is equal to 2480 Medivac Juliet (confirmed identical)
* 2683 Shuttle Foxtrot is between 2433 and 2429 S-Rank (between +250 and 254 points)
* 2423 Medic Mu is equal to 2738 in Scout Kilo (+315 points again)
* 2423 Medic Mu is equal to 2423 Tassadar Charlie and 2423 Medivac Alamo
* 2524 Infestor Pepper is equal to 2398 Lenassa Dixie (+126 points)
* 2520 Infestor Pepper is probably equal to 2394 Medic Mu (LuckyFool's likely score)
* 2616 Augustgrad Psi is equal to 2364 Talematros Eta (+252 points)
* 2631 Urun Charlie is equal to 2379 in S-Rank (+252 points)
* 2513 Feld Lima is between 2390 and 2385 in S-Rank (between +123 and +128 points)
* 2436 Corsair Uncle is between 2313 and 2309 in S-Rank (between +123 and +127 points)
* 2608 Dragoon Sierra is equal to 2293 Medivac Alamo (+315 points)
* 2351 Executor Phi is between 2286 and 2293 in S-Rank (between +58 and 65 points)
* 2354 Argo Echo is between 2286 and 2293 in S-Rank (between +61 and 68 points)
* 2332 Medivac Charlie is between 2272 and 2265 in S-Rank (between +60 and 67 points)

Conclusions:
Because the point modifiers that can be observed from this list are all multiples of 63, (+63, 126, 189, 252, 315) we can conclude that each tier below S-Rank will have a modifier that is a multiple of +63.

Unanswered Questions:
- How does the system determine which division tier a player should be placed? Obviously by MMR, but to what extent?
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post #5498 of 25315

As a die hard Final Fantasy VII fan, this was pretty awesome:

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post #5499 of 25315
Thanks for that doom.
So what exactly are divisions? Do you play primarily players only in your division? Could you change divisions if you do better/worse?
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post #5500 of 25315
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhed5 View Post
Thanks for that doom.
So what exactly are divisions? Do you play primarily players only in your division? Could you change divisions if you do better/worse?
No, and no. I've played players from my division twice. You will always stay in the same division. I don't really understand what his post is trying to say yet. It's something along the lines of, if you have a high MMR entering Diamond, you get placed in a better skilled division. So for example my division has some pros like QXC, so I must be awesome ( jk, however mine was listed as S class ).

My friend read the same thing and he said something along the lines of :

(3:14:16 PM) XXX: so you are 2k in S-rank
(3:14:23 PM) XXX: you play someone at 2200 on B rank
(3:14:39 PM) XXX: it actually matches you as 2126(you) vs 2200
(3:14:50 PM) XXX: according to this guy's math and assumption
(3:15:04 PM) XXX: so thats why someone who might be 100+ pts over you is only slightly favored or worse
(3:15:34 PM) XXX: no idea how they decided which divisions are which rank. Also, I would guess that divisions can rank up since there are so many S-class



but again I'm not sure if any of that is true. Which is why I posted it if someone else can figure it out. It's not my strong point comprehending statistics and how complicated ones work .
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