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post #5661 of 25319
What's everyone's thoughts about the phoenix in PvT?

I've been going phoenix heavy (aka using them) this past week and it's working amazing. In macro games I'll slap down a second stargate. Here's how the typical game goes:

- Quick turtle tech to phoenix, pump stalker and sentry.
- Terran will scan your stargate and freak out, building turrets and keeping marines back.
- Transition into heavy chargelot and colossus, take expansion. At this point you should be able to take the terran mineral to mineral.
- Add templars to the mix and the terran is in BIG trouble.

Phoenix work great because:
- Most terran players are attack movers: marines will attack zealots, vikings will attack phoenix, and your colossi will rape the bioball.
- They completely psych out the terran from attempting drops (HUGE).
- They're good for harassing (bioball and medivac/vikings dont move at the same speed). You can even pick off marines and units being rallied to the main army.
- You can take tanks out of the terran ownage equation.

I rarely see this in pro replays, in fact only 1 pro is using them, which prompted me to try this out (because he raped). I can post replays of me vs 2200 opponents if needed.
    
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post #5662 of 25319
I've seen phoenixes being used by Nony and KiWiKaKi with moderate success. I'd say that normally if terran sees you're going phoenix he can just go ****ing kill you. Never had much success with them except as an addition to colossi late game and can't see it working against most of popular marine heavy timing attacks. I also rarely ever 1 base against terrans any more.
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post #5663 of 25319
If I see phoenix, I build 2 turrets, walk into your base and kill you. Never seen it work against me ever. I don't just a move though. Voidrays are still much better vs Terran.
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post #5664 of 25319
I'm not sure how you get pheonix stalker and sentry, too gas heavy.

How do you defend your natural? I can't imagine stopping the first push.
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post #5665 of 25319
Nony is 1337 with Phoenix play. Personally I only get them against zerg.

Theyre easier for terrans to take out than for zergs. Id rather use them to pick off SCVs than marines though. Also good to lift tanks and let your stalkers help pick them off but I prefer to use them vs light units. Ive seen pros use it with success vs terran though.
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post #5666 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhed5 View Post
I'm not sure how you get pheonix stalker and sentry, too gas heavy.

How do you defend your natural? I can't imagine stopping the first push.
I doubt you will. Darrenc oktoberfest did a phoenix opener vs me in the oc.net finals ( he is 2200+ diamond too ), and I just pushed out after my turrets were up and won. He didn't have enough on the ground to stop me.

It might work if the guy doesn't realize he should push soon.
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post #5667 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by poroboszcz View Post
Why don't you play ladder then? Since you seem to practice mostly with diamond players you're probably way above your league.
Actually, I do ladder, but, I started MP end of Sept since I was busy playing through campaign and I'm only playing a game or two per day now, mostly at night since my net lags during the day, so, it builds up rather fast. Lowest its been was 799 or so Yes, I've played against most on here anywhere from bronze to diamond with varying results. I've also played customs against some diamonds which were interesting to say the least.

My problem is that sometimes if I see an opening, I'll make units to attack but then might decide against it which leaves me in a bad situation since those units could've went for eco(this happened last night with a game against doom), my scouting has been almost non-existant lately(not sure why, likely since I'm making bad assumptions about what my opponent might build, so, I ignore it) and my macro is not the greatest, so, I'll exp 15 and start getting gas, etc... but sometimes would make a couple of drones, but, concentrate on making an army which isn't how I should play zerg . I also seem to lose to some rather bizzare strategies that I've could easily defended against(lost to banshee harass last night against doom, even though I could've easily thrown some spores before hand and I had more than enough minerals to make 10 of them if I wanted :facepalm. It's still kinda funny though, since, I haven't lost to a banshee harass in a long while(usually have mutas+overseer by then).

TL;DR I do ladder, internet issues affect that though and I started laddering late(end Sept). Still have some issues in my game including taking advantage of openings, more effective scouting, better macroing and get spores/teching up faster.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomDash View Post
Both of you should ladder. Laddering is fun and good practice. Lots of different types of players. I wish I had that kind of bonus pool.

I don't know if I could go back to SC1... SCII's engine spoiled me.

But my old computer plays SCII just fine on low.
I do ladder, but, much less these days. If I don't feel like I'm in the mood, I avoid it because I don't wanna lost points and add on that I can only ladder at night due to internet's issue which means that I play less games as a result

SC1 is still fun, even if just to play with the campaign editor and make random scenarios

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazorbeam View Post
What's everyone's thoughts about the phoenix
in PvT?

I've been going phoenix heavy (aka using them) this past week and it's working amazing. In macro games I'll slap down a second stargate. Here's how the typical game goes:

- Quick turtle tech to phoenix, pump stalker and sentry.
- Terran will scan your stargate and freak out, building turrets and keeping marines back.
- Transition into heavy chargelot and colossus, take expansion. At this point you should be able to take the terran mineral to mineral.
- Add templars to the mix and the terran is in BIG trouble.

Phoenix work great because:
- Most terran players are attack movers: marines will attack zealots, vikings will attack phoenix, and your colossi will rape the bioball.
- They completely psych out the terran from attempting drops (HUGE).
- They're good for harassing (bioball and medivac/vikings dont move at the same speed). You can even pick off marines and units being rallied to the main army.
- You can take tanks out of the terran ownage equation.

I rarely see this in pro replays, in fact only 1 pro is using them, which prompted me to try this out (because he raped). I can post replays of me vs 2200 opponents if needed.
I would be interested in watching such a game

Problem with phenoix harass as I see it is that a couple of turrets/spores/cannons really deter them. They are great for picking up tanks to get an edge while your army battles his, but, then there is the risk of losing them before the engagement. They are great for picking off OLs and mutas, but, it's harder to keep up with muta production. Against vikings, I'm not sure how they will perform due to the insane range of vikings+damage they do
    
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post #5668 of 25319
anyone going to be on a bit later? like 6 EST?
    
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post #5669 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThumperSD View Post
So you have to alt+tab for the APM and start/end features?

Does it allow you to save more recent replays than Blizzard's standard 10? I forget to save my replay sometimes during long sessions. I wish I can save at least my last 20-30 replays automatically since the replays are so small in size.
You don't have to alt-tab. A voice will alert you when the game starts/ends, as well as when your APM drops too low, and when your APM is acceptable again. You can set the APM alarm for any APM you want. I set mine to warn me if I drop below 30 APM.

It allows you to save unlimited replays. As soon as you're done playing a game it will take the replay, rename it according to your parameters (an expample of the naming scheme I've configured is "2v2 ZPvPT 2010-11-22 21-37-58 cirE Minandreas Tarsonis Assault .SC2Replay"), then save it in a folder you specify. I actually set it up so that it saves the replays to my NAS server. So basically I'll have an archive of every SC2 game I play for now on.
Edited by Redmist - 11/23/10 at 1:11pm
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post #5670 of 25319
Phoenix beats viking 1v1
Edited by ThumperSD - 11/23/10 at 1:14pm
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