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post #5801 of 25319
I don't know if you will perform better. Macroing with T and P is a little different but a lot of the times your problem has nothing to do with droning or making units, in fact exactly the opposite, and doing nothing at all. Let's just say when I watch you play am often times confused as to what you are even looking at. I've seen larva sitting at your base @ both hatches doing nothing with 2000/600 in the bank ( and no mutas on the way ). That's exactly the same as having a bunch of barracks or gateways just sitting there doing nothing. I don't think it would be wise for you to play either of those races until you can grasp the fundamentals of the game not just Zerg. Though if you feel those races are better suited for you for other reasons go for it. Chances are if you play P or T you will be so much worse than you are with Zerg, and honestly that won't help either of us get better.

I think the one thing that kind of bugs me about your attitude, while for the most part awesome and positive.. is that you always seem to make up an excuse for the problem without just acknowledging issues better players give you as advice. I'm confident every good player would tell you to work on your spending and building more than learning what units and upgrades can do what, because as I've said its by far the biggest whole to your game. My perfect example is that game that you went roach, and very late muta vs yks... you said you shoulda got muta faster. Well guess what? That's completely false and has nothign to do with that match what so ever. You could have won with roach just fine if you spent... so why even mention something like muta. That's like, I could have won with a dark templar , but you have 10k in the bank and you lucked out because your opponent wasn't prepared for it. So, I know that you are going to give me 10 reasons justifying your reasoning behind it, and I honestly think you are putting far too much thought into something that isn't your problem at all.

But of course I'm willing to practice.
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post #5802 of 25319

Protoss players/ Terrans, abuse this ( lol ):


Edited by DoomDash - 11/25/10 at 11:35pm
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post #5803 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomDash View Post
I don't know if you will perform better. Macroing with T and P is a little different but a lot of the times your problem has nothing to do with droning or making units, in fact exactly the opposite, and doing nothing at all. Let's just say when I watch you play am often times confused as to what you are even looking at. I've seen larva sitting at your base @ both hatches doing nothing with 2000/600 in the bank ( and no mutas on the way ). That's exactly the same as having a bunch of barracks or gateways just sitting there doing nothing. I don't think it would be wise for you to play either of those races until you can grasp the fundamentals of the game not just Zerg. Though if you feel those races are better suited for you for other reasons go for it. Chances are if you play P or T you will be so much worse than you are with Zerg, and honestly that won't help either of us get better.
Well, I've played a couple of T and P games and haven't found them to be significantly different from zerg other than the early exp, but, not much experience otherwise, so, can't really comment much. I watch the map sometimes, usually to check near the opponent's base and decide where to move my units to attack. I've had a couple of cases where I'll place some mutas near an opponent's base, far enough to think that they are fine, next thing I know, one of the marines targets them and they are gone Usually when I go mutas, I use up all the gas, so, I don't mind saving it to make 10+ mutas at once for harass and general map control. As for minerals, no reason why I have a lot, been going for a 2nd hatchery at my main but I always have a surplus, just haven't gotten to the point where I can take it down to below 300 and it'll only get worse once I start forcing myself to get a third base since I'm always stuck on two in my games. Usually I try to just go mass slings to use it, but, I'm going to venture a guess that my surplus won't go below 300 anytime soon and TBH, I don't think that's a horrible thing, since, it could allow me to quickly rebuild my base if I get some of it torn down by my opponent

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomDash View Post
I think the one thing that kind of bugs me about your attitude, while for the most part awesome and positive.. is that you always seem to make up an excuse for the problem without just acknowledging issues better players give you as advice. I'm confident every good player would tell you to work on your spending and building more than learning what units and upgrades can do what, because as I've said its by far the biggest whole to your game.
Not sure what you mean there, but, I've always been acknowledging that there are issues with my games, more specifically that my macro is the biggest issue followed closely by scouting, since, spreading creep is down now and my spawning larvae is improving. I've been trying to work at these issues for a while, but, things don't change overnight and definitely not when I play a game or two a day if even that(check my history to see my point). You become really rusty if you don't play a couple of games a day or at least play several to make up a day or two of no sc2.

I've been making macro my theme for any games that I played recently, since, its the biggest issue, infact, in a game I played earlier today(1vs1) and our games today(2vs2), my macro was my main focus and might've cost me the match(1vs1) since I droned a little too hard and didn't notice his attack(got my ling killed at tower). Even though in the last game my macro was rather bad, I recall having 45 drones, decent enough considering I used to have a max of 27 or so drones in my 1vs1 games(this includes drones getting gas as well :/). I also used to mostly expand for gas, now I usually have at least 10 drones mining as well which I think is a great improvement. I'll try to post that 1vs1 game from earlier today to show what I mean, since, 2vs2 games aren't exactly great to show this

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomDash View Post
My perfect example is that game that you went roach, and very late muta vs yks... you said you shoulda got muta faster. Well guess what? That's completely false and has nothign to do with that match what so ever. You could have won with roach just fine if you spent... so why even mention something like muta. That's like, I could have won with a dark templar , but you have 10k in the bank and you lucked out because your opponent wasn't prepared for it. So, I know that you are going to give me 10 reasons justifying your reasoning behind it, and I honestly think you are putting far too much thought into something that isn't your problem at all.
I can't really recall what happened in that game since it was a while back. The thing is, you aren't seeing it from my POV, mostly since you were watching the match as an observor, you get to see it as a whole, instead of the fragments that each player sees. Is that game the delta map one, because, I do recall getting mutas rather late in that one and my macro wasn't great due to his early pressure(couple of zealots and stalkers).

I do recall getting attacked by that stalker+immortal+zealot blob by the end though. I think my reasoning was that since only stalkers can hit air, had I focused on getting a large amount of mutas+upgrades, I could focus fire them first then easily take down the immortals+zealots. I would think roaches would've been a bad idea because of the immortals mixed in with his army, that's my opinion at least.

Reasoning behind the 10k? Well, I mentioned that I can't find a way to spend it fast enough unlike the gas which I usually get it down pretty low. If I don't tell you my reasoning behind the moves/units I make, well, that's like you trying to read a book written in another language, without a dictionary(my reasoning), you just won't know what anything means(why I did what I did), since, you don't understand the language

Edit:
TL;DR I've always acknowledged that macro and scouting are my two biggest issues with my game and that's evidenced by my posts in this thread when I meant praticing my macro. I believe that one must see the game from another's POV and listen to their reasoning for their moves before coming up with a conclusion. Also, having limited game experience means that I react differently than those who have been playing a lot of SC2 and SC1 and with more games, my strategies will change a lot. Good examples are that I used to go 10 pool OL, instead now I opt for 15 exp 14 pool or so and focus more on macro while I used to focus on making units and still getting overrun as a result
Edited by BigFan - 11/25/10 at 11:44pm
    
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post #5804 of 25319
LOL gg.
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post #5805 of 25319
Fair enough. I did not mean you don't acknowledge it, I more meant that you always give a reason that makes it sound like you think you could have won with something as simple as going muta's, which from all the matches I've seen is not true. I know you realize your macro is the area you need the most work... I should have worded it different.

*edit* one more thing I'd like to add: I know you said you laddered today, and I think you should keep that up. I think you actually learn more playing people @ your actual skill level because you can adjust your build / game play a tiny little bit and see how much more effective it is against people @ the same skill level as you. Against a player who is quite a few leagues ahead of you its hard to tell if anything you are changing is actually helping you if you still get steam rolled anyway. I don't think you should give up challenging people that are way ahead of you but ladder match making system does wonders of pairing you up against good opponents for you.
Edited by DoomDash - 11/25/10 at 11:56pm
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post #5806 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomDash View Post
Fair enough. I did not mean you don't acknowledge it, I more meant that you always give a reason that makes it sound like you think you could have won with something as simple as going muta's, which from all the matches I've seen is not true. I know you realize your macro is the area you need the most work... I should have worded it different.
Well, I never meant just mutas, but, more than they would've been the and I'm using this term loosly "perfect" counter. Look at it this way. That game we played on meta(2nd one) where it was me and EmMule against you and banded. If I got that muta pack earlier, I likely would've saved my exp and my drones because you didn't have much AA, mostly marauders+tanks with 10or so marines. Would I have survived your second attack? Maybe, since, I could've focused on making slings+blings before you arrived due to the long distance, however, can't really say with 100% certainty that I would've beat those thors.

There are always things that I could've done better in my games, like pretty much everyone else such as getting a third earlier, making a certain unit or not(roaches against immortals for example), getting the upgrades or scouting an attack a bit too late to make units, etc.... For that particular game(yks one), I thought going mutas would've helped a lot since I would've concentrated my roaches+slings on his zealots+immortals and focused mutas on stalkers. I think I just interpret my games differently than you do due to my own experiences at my league

As for the laddering, well, I never planned on giving up on it, plan to keep on laddering until I decide to stop playing sc2(maybe get bored?), but, I find challenging harder opponent makes me work harder to improve my game, because, I have to grab that third or macro harder to even stand a chance otherwise I could easily win all my games in my league and I'm winning most on just 2 bases ATM which is why I rarely grab a third in our games
Edited by BigFan - 11/26/10 at 12:00am
    
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post #5807 of 25319
I edited my post so make sure you catch that.

I have no problem with you realizing X unit would be better in X situation, my main point is that to me it just always sounded like you made that seem like the most important part. I hear what you are saying and I think everything is fine . As long as you aren't putting the blame entirely on X unit missing it's all good mang .

As for your laddering, play hard at all times, and you will keep going up until you do hit people who are better, than you will be at the point where I was describing. I'm sure you are way over qualified for your points @ Silver right now, but I meant when your MMR / League evens out that will be ideal practice for you.

Take me for example. I'm probably pretty close to playing people exactly at my skill level, and honestly I feel this experience is much more valuable than getting crushed by huk or boxer... even if I'd prefer that .
Edited by DoomDash - 11/26/10 at 12:05am
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post #5809 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomDash View Post
I edited my post so make sure you catch that.

I have no problem with you realizing X unit would be better in X situation, my main point is that to me it just always sounded like you made that seem like the most important part. I hear what you are saying and I think everything is fine . As long as you aren't putting the blame entirely on X unit missing it's all good mang .

As for your laddering, play hard at all times, and you will keep going up until you do hit people who are better, than you will be at the point where I was describing. I'm sure you are way over qualified for your points @ Silver right now, but I meant when your MMR / League evens out that will be ideal practice for you.

Take me for example. I'm probably pretty close to playing people exactly at my skill level, and honestly I feel this experience is much more valuable than getting crushed by huk or boxer... even if I'd prefer that .

To expand on playing a better player : It's going to give a scewed idea on what you are doing wrong, and won't properly prepare you for X situations.

and I think that not playing your harder @ Silver ladder is a mental weakness. Always play 100% and it will help you.
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post #5810 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomDash View Post
I edited my post so make sure you catch that.

I have no problem with you realizing X unit would be better in X situation, my main point is that to me it just always sounded like you made that seem like the most important part. I hear what you are saying and I think everything is fine . As long as you aren't putting the blame entirely on X unit missing it's all good mang .
Well, with the way the game is ATM, having a certain unit can really turn the tide in your favour. Example, if a protoss decides to skip sentries and mass zealots or even just zealots+stalkers against MM, well, it could easily be GG for them depending on how well the T micro MM. The game is while I don't like to say this, a rock-paper-scissor kind of a game where for example, immortals take down roaches, but, are taken down by slings which are taken down by zealots which the roaches can take down, so, it's a circle, see my point?

I don't fully put the blame on X unit, since, I have other issues not related to making units(macro, scouting, upgrades, etc....), but, let's be honest, you can't really tell me that having mutas against that zealot+stalker+immortal comp would've been a bad idea especially when you factor in that only stalkers can hit them and since they are a blob, you can't easily focus fire them, so, the damage spreads out. I've had games where having an ultra or two with my hydras would've helped tremendously and likely won me the battle and the game since my opponent had a stalkers+colossi army, but, instead I got wiped

Edit: Well, I always play my hardest, I just win my games without ever teching up to tier 3 which isn't great since ultras and BLs can really make a difference in a game
Edited by BigFan - 11/26/10 at 12:14am
    
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