Overclock.net › Forums › Video Games › PC Gaming › [Official] Starcraft 2 Strategy & Discussion Thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

[Official] Starcraft 2 Strategy & Discussion Thread - Page 588

post #5871 of 25319
But then again Protoss is having a lot of success on the ladder (more so in lower leagues than diamond/plat though). I think the reason why zerg and terran is doing so well in GSL is because they have more and better skilled players. Not only that but there are a lot of unorthodoxed builds/strats (especially by Terrans) in the GSL which seems to catch a lot of protoss off guard. I dont think protoss is really that UP at all. Sure there are some minor tweaks that would help balance the game but nothing to QQ about.

I really hope Tester will qualify in season 4
Random name
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 4930k Asus P9X79 LE ATI HD5850 G.SKILL 4x4gb 2133mhz 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Samsung EVO 840 Seagate Barracuda Noctua NH-D14 W 8.1 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell 24" 1920x1200 Tt eSports Poseiden brown Seasonic X-850 Fractal F4 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Logitech G9x Steelseries Musiland 02 DAC KRK RP5 & Dayton SUB-80 
  hide details  
Reply
Random name
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 4930k Asus P9X79 LE ATI HD5850 G.SKILL 4x4gb 2133mhz 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Samsung EVO 840 Seagate Barracuda Noctua NH-D14 W 8.1 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell 24" 1920x1200 Tt eSports Poseiden brown Seasonic X-850 Fractal F4 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Logitech G9x Steelseries Musiland 02 DAC KRK RP5 & Dayton SUB-80 
  hide details  
Reply
post #5872 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by thiru View Post
Blizzard doesn't care. They don't look at the outcome.
Do you really think that? They made a poster for TheFruitDealer in the first one. I think they watch at least the round of 8 and further and talk to the pros before and after.

Quote:
But then again Protoss is having a lot of success on the ladder (more so in lower leagues than diamond/plat though). I think the reason why zerg and terran is doing so well in GSL is because they have more and better skilled players. Not only that but there are a lot of unorthodoxed builds/strats (especially by Terrans) in the GSL which seems to catch a lot of protoss off guard. I dont think protoss is really that UP at all. Sure there are some minor tweaks that would help balance the game but nothing to QQ about.
I agree. If anything I think that Protoss doesn't have enough build orders. There is so few options to surprise your opponent and not all in.
post #5873 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by cory1234 View Post
Do you really think that? They made a poster for TheFruitDealer in the first one. I think they watch at least the round of 8 and further and talk to the pros before and after.
Well of course they do. But they don't make changes by looking at one game, especially a finals where each player has builds planned and will have gone through several layers of metagaming throughout the games. They don't look at individual games. If zerg invents a new strat, then Blizzard will wait and see if it can be stopped. If it's not a new strat, then it's just additional data.

The fact that zerg has won 2 GSL is irrelevant, especially since during the first GSL zerg were considered UP.
Omicron Lyrae
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom II X3 720 BE @3.6 Asus M4A785TD-V EVO Sapphire HD5770 V2 OCZ 2x2GB Gold DDR3-1333 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
Samsung Spinpoint F3 1TB Sony Lightscribe DVD-RW Windows 7 Professional 64-bit AOC F22+ 1080p 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Cherry Scissor Switch Flat Keyboard OCZ StealthXstream 600W Cooler Master Elite 334 Microsoft Sidewinder 
  hide details  
Reply
Omicron Lyrae
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom II X3 720 BE @3.6 Asus M4A785TD-V EVO Sapphire HD5770 V2 OCZ 2x2GB Gold DDR3-1333 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
Samsung Spinpoint F3 1TB Sony Lightscribe DVD-RW Windows 7 Professional 64-bit AOC F22+ 1080p 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Cherry Scissor Switch Flat Keyboard OCZ StealthXstream 600W Cooler Master Elite 334 Microsoft Sidewinder 
  hide details  
Reply
post #5874 of 25319
Protoss lacks build orders so they are more predictable than the other races but at the same time protoss build orders are very solid. I can honestly say I lose to all three races evenly hence why I say protoss is not UP. I used to have problems with terran with some practice but force field, I can usually fend off an early MM push. The reason why Blizzard put FF in the game is to help them survive early pushes where protoss army is generally UP (unless you 4 gate). FF basically evens this out.

Each race just requires different play styles. Terrans have a lot of all-ins, zerg has a powerful late game while protoss is kind of in the middle. With protoss it is very important to keep as many if your units alive as possible considering they are the least cost efficient race; shields have to be used to its full advantage. At the same time, protoss has a very powerful late game once you mix in colossi/HT storm with your unit composition. That's one of the reasons why i chose protoss as I want to balance micro and macro.
Edited by ThumperSD - 11/28/10 at 5:02pm
Random name
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 4930k Asus P9X79 LE ATI HD5850 G.SKILL 4x4gb 2133mhz 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Samsung EVO 840 Seagate Barracuda Noctua NH-D14 W 8.1 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell 24" 1920x1200 Tt eSports Poseiden brown Seasonic X-850 Fractal F4 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Logitech G9x Steelseries Musiland 02 DAC KRK RP5 & Dayton SUB-80 
  hide details  
Reply
Random name
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 4930k Asus P9X79 LE ATI HD5850 G.SKILL 4x4gb 2133mhz 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Samsung EVO 840 Seagate Barracuda Noctua NH-D14 W 8.1 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell 24" 1920x1200 Tt eSports Poseiden brown Seasonic X-850 Fractal F4 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Logitech G9x Steelseries Musiland 02 DAC KRK RP5 & Dayton SUB-80 
  hide details  
Reply
post #5875 of 25319
I killed Zeratul last night for fun.
1440P Extreme.
(17 items)
 
Now the wifes PC.
(14 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
I7 3930K @ 4.4ghz Asus Rampage IV Extreme 2011 EVGA GTX 980 Ti 6GB FTW EVGA GTX 980 Ti 6GB FTW 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
G,skill Ripjaw Z series 2400 32gb Samsung 840 Pro Seagate 3TB 7200 RPM  Western Digital mainstream 3TB  
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 840 Pro LG Bluray Burner Noctua NH-D14 SE2011 Windows 10 x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Monoprice 27" 2560x1440 IPS LED Razer Black Widow Tournament Edition Corsair RM1000 CoolerMaster Storm Trooper 
Other
EVGA SLI Bridge 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel I7 870 @ 3.6 ghz ASUS P7P55D-E Pro EVGA 680 GTX 4gb EVGA 680 GTX 4gb 
RAMHard DriveOptical DriveOS
G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 16GB (4x 4GB) DDR3 Samsung 830 128 GB SSD, WD 2TB 7200 RPM LG Black 10X Blu-ray Burner Windows 7 64 bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Acer G24, 24" 1920x1200 Razer Blackwidow Ultimate Antec TruePower 750 COOLER MASTER Storm Scout 
MouseMouse Pad
Rat7 Razer eXactMat 
  hide details  
Reply
1440P Extreme.
(17 items)
 
Now the wifes PC.
(14 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
I7 3930K @ 4.4ghz Asus Rampage IV Extreme 2011 EVGA GTX 980 Ti 6GB FTW EVGA GTX 980 Ti 6GB FTW 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
G,skill Ripjaw Z series 2400 32gb Samsung 840 Pro Seagate 3TB 7200 RPM  Western Digital mainstream 3TB  
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 840 Pro LG Bluray Burner Noctua NH-D14 SE2011 Windows 10 x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Monoprice 27" 2560x1440 IPS LED Razer Black Widow Tournament Edition Corsair RM1000 CoolerMaster Storm Trooper 
Other
EVGA SLI Bridge 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel I7 870 @ 3.6 ghz ASUS P7P55D-E Pro EVGA 680 GTX 4gb EVGA 680 GTX 4gb 
RAMHard DriveOptical DriveOS
G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 16GB (4x 4GB) DDR3 Samsung 830 128 GB SSD, WD 2TB 7200 RPM LG Black 10X Blu-ray Burner Windows 7 64 bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Acer G24, 24" 1920x1200 Razer Blackwidow Ultimate Antec TruePower 750 COOLER MASTER Storm Scout 
MouseMouse Pad
Rat7 Razer eXactMat 
  hide details  
Reply
post #5876 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThumperSD View Post
Protoss lacks build orders so they are more predictable than the other races but at the same time protoss build orders are very solid. I can honestly say I lose to all three races evenly hence why I say protoss is not UP. I used to have problems with terran with some practice but force field, I can usually fend off an early MM push. The reason why Blizzard put FF in the game is to help them survive early pushes where protoss army is generally UP (unless you 4 gate). FF basically evens this out.

Each race just requires different play styles. Terrans have a lot of all-ins, zerg has a powerful late game while protoss is kind of in the middle. With protoss it is very important to keep as many if your units alive as possible considering they are the least cost efficient race; shields have to be used to its full advantage. At the same time, protoss has a very powerful late game once you mix in colossi/HT storm with your unit composition. That's one of the reasons why i chose protoss as I want to balance micro and macro.
I dunno, I mean build orders can be good and all, however, you also need to be flexible in your game, so, if you mostly focus on a specific build, you might have a harder time adapting to your opponent, keyword there being might. I find with most protoss I play again, they go for zealot+stalker+colossi or stalker+sentry+colossi army. I rarely see air units in play which is a shame since I believe that the mothership is a great unit

Quote:
Originally Posted by cory1234 View Post
It will be interesting to see what if any balance changes Blizzard will make if Zerg wins the GSL for the 3rd time in a row.
Doubt they will make any, agree with thiru on this one. They watch the games for sure, but, they wouldn't change Zerg just because they win the GSL for the 3th time. Personally, don't really care how they change any race including Zerg, I'm more than happy to adapt to the new stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by thiru View Post
I bet Boxer is a secret Cella fanboy.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomDash View Post
I killed Zeratul last night for fun.
huh? What are you talking about? You mean in one of the sc2 missions or did you play an sc1 mission?

Anyone up for a game? I'll be trying to aim to be on in 30min-1hr for a game or two since it's getting pretty late
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Q6600 2.40GHZ Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L MSI GTX570 @ stock Corsair 2GB DDR2 800MHz 
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
Seagate Barracuda 250GB Windows 7 Professional 64bit Samsung SW2494 24" Antec Earthpower 650W 
Case
Apevia X-Plorer 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Q6600 2.40GHZ Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L MSI GTX570 @ stock Corsair 2GB DDR2 800MHz 
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
Seagate Barracuda 250GB Windows 7 Professional 64bit Samsung SW2494 24" Antec Earthpower 650W 
Case
Apevia X-Plorer 
  hide details  
Reply
post #5877 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThumperSD View Post
But then again Protoss is having a lot of success on the ladder (more so in lower leagues than diamond/plat though). I think the reason why zerg and terran is doing so well in GSL is because they have more and better skilled players. Not only that but there are a lot of unorthodoxed builds/strats (especially by Terrans) in the GSL which seems to catch a lot of protoss off guard. I dont think protoss is really that UP at all. Sure there are some minor tweaks that would help balance the game but nothing to QQ about.
Ladder doesn't really mean much. The way it works will always try to make you get around 50% w/l ratio and can't be used to make conclusions about balance. Also while protoss is the most represented race in diamond, it is the least represented one in top 200. So protoss isn't really doing that great.

The tournaments are much better benchmark and GSL #3 is just ridiculous. I predict there won't be a single protoss by RO16.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cory1234 View Post
I agree. If anything I think that Protoss doesn't have enough build orders. There is so few options to surprise your opponent and not all in.
The thing is that early game protoss is usually forced to play in a specific way, so it's really hard to come up with new openings. Especially in PvT you're pretty much forced to get robo and going any other tech path is just a blind shot. At the same time terran can open almost anything and be safe.

I don't personally feel much of the imbalance, although I think that PvZ got harder since the patch, but there's quite a lot of evidence that protoss has issues as a race. For example:

Quote:
oGsMC (P)
Q. Protoss isn’t doing very well.
A. In in-house leagues, I feel that protoss is very hard to play. Zerg became stronger, and PvT became more of a build order risk.

cOreZenith (P)
Q. Protoss hasn’t been doing well in the last 2 seasons.
A. They have to nerf marauders. They should also return the old range of 3 to roaches. I also wish they would bring back the old zealots. Protoss is so hard.

NEXChoa (P)
Q. Are you confident about the main event?
A. I’m confident in PvT but playing against zerg is difficult. I want to avoid PvZ’s as much as possible.

SlayerS_BoxeR (T)
Q. We are expecting a strong showing from zergs this season.
A. Zergs found a way to win even with smaller sample of representation. Now, more zergs are participating, because zerg became better. I hope that trend continues, so that the development team realizes something is wrong. I really hope zergs have a strong showing, but I hope I'm not one of their preys.

Genius decides to change race -> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...urrentpage=All ([b]it has been suggested by many, and logically so, that he may not be serious, you can trust him, or not)

Fruitdealer says PvT, the P needs a buff at the season 2 qualifiers when sSKS failed to qualify

sSKS and SangHo thinks TvP is OP, in fact in the GOM TV Clan Special [http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...pic_id=166818]
sSKS got 1st place inside TSL by defeating SangHo in the finals AS Terran and says , "terrans op"

Fruitdealer says zerg is op in GSL S3 Interview After Ro64 win

KyrixZenith says zerg is op when he won GSL All-Stars

HongUnPrime says zerg roaches are over powered with recent buff

sSKS and InCa said they were considering changing race because of imbalance in Gisado's stream chat (not sure how serious they were, they COULD have been joking around, I personally think they were)
buka
(17 items)
 
  
Reply
buka
(17 items)
 
  
Reply
post #5878 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by poroboszcz View Post
I don't personally feel much of the imbalance, although I think that PvZ got harder since the patch, but there's quite a lot of evidence that protoss has issues as a race. For example:
Interesting, although, one example that struck me as being odd was the second one where he mentions that Blizzard should reverse roach range, zealot time AND nerf marauders. Since I've been playing P more lately, I can see where his point about marauders comes from. Unless you master ff or go 2 gate robo and chrono that first immortal for the marauders, zealots+stalkers are eaten alive by MM especially if your opponent stims, targets stalkers/sentries first and then kites the zealots I'm not sure I would agree with the zealot time because I thought the purpose of that was to prevent 2 gate rushes which were hard to stop by Z as I recall. As for roach range, not sure either
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Q6600 2.40GHZ Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L MSI GTX570 @ stock Corsair 2GB DDR2 800MHz 
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
Seagate Barracuda 250GB Windows 7 Professional 64bit Samsung SW2494 24" Antec Earthpower 650W 
Case
Apevia X-Plorer 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Q6600 2.40GHZ Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L MSI GTX570 @ stock Corsair 2GB DDR2 800MHz 
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
Seagate Barracuda 250GB Windows 7 Professional 64bit Samsung SW2494 24" Antec Earthpower 650W 
Case
Apevia X-Plorer 
  hide details  
Reply
post #5879 of 25319
The only way marauders should be nerfed is if Protoss tier 3 units are nerfed. I have no problem with Marauder being nerfed if they balance out the late game Protoss units to make up for it. Though if the Marauder is nerfed they better nerf the roach as well because that **** will be nuts. In its current form the roach is probably a little too good, especially vs Protoss. vs Terran its OK but if you nerf the Marauder you better nerf the roach.. or I'll take a slight siege tank vs armored buff.

I don't think the Marauder is the problem though.. I think it's that the banshee forces robotech which gives T so many more options, and P a very predictable play style. Maybe hallucinated observers!?
Edited by DoomDash - 11/28/10 at 8:22pm
1440P Extreme.
(17 items)
 
Now the wifes PC.
(14 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
I7 3930K @ 4.4ghz Asus Rampage IV Extreme 2011 EVGA GTX 980 Ti 6GB FTW EVGA GTX 980 Ti 6GB FTW 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
G,skill Ripjaw Z series 2400 32gb Samsung 840 Pro Seagate 3TB 7200 RPM  Western Digital mainstream 3TB  
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 840 Pro LG Bluray Burner Noctua NH-D14 SE2011 Windows 10 x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Monoprice 27" 2560x1440 IPS LED Razer Black Widow Tournament Edition Corsair RM1000 CoolerMaster Storm Trooper 
Other
EVGA SLI Bridge 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel I7 870 @ 3.6 ghz ASUS P7P55D-E Pro EVGA 680 GTX 4gb EVGA 680 GTX 4gb 
RAMHard DriveOptical DriveOS
G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 16GB (4x 4GB) DDR3 Samsung 830 128 GB SSD, WD 2TB 7200 RPM LG Black 10X Blu-ray Burner Windows 7 64 bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Acer G24, 24" 1920x1200 Razer Blackwidow Ultimate Antec TruePower 750 COOLER MASTER Storm Scout 
MouseMouse Pad
Rat7 Razer eXactMat 
  hide details  
Reply
1440P Extreme.
(17 items)
 
Now the wifes PC.
(14 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
I7 3930K @ 4.4ghz Asus Rampage IV Extreme 2011 EVGA GTX 980 Ti 6GB FTW EVGA GTX 980 Ti 6GB FTW 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
G,skill Ripjaw Z series 2400 32gb Samsung 840 Pro Seagate 3TB 7200 RPM  Western Digital mainstream 3TB  
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 840 Pro LG Bluray Burner Noctua NH-D14 SE2011 Windows 10 x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Monoprice 27" 2560x1440 IPS LED Razer Black Widow Tournament Edition Corsair RM1000 CoolerMaster Storm Trooper 
Other
EVGA SLI Bridge 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel I7 870 @ 3.6 ghz ASUS P7P55D-E Pro EVGA 680 GTX 4gb EVGA 680 GTX 4gb 
RAMHard DriveOptical DriveOS
G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 16GB (4x 4GB) DDR3 Samsung 830 128 GB SSD, WD 2TB 7200 RPM LG Black 10X Blu-ray Burner Windows 7 64 bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Acer G24, 24" 1920x1200 Razer Blackwidow Ultimate Antec TruePower 750 COOLER MASTER Storm Scout 
MouseMouse Pad
Rat7 Razer eXactMat 
  hide details  
Reply
post #5880 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomDash View Post
I killed Zeratul last night for fun.
U mad

Quote:
Originally Posted by poroboszcz View Post
Ladder doesn't really mean much. The way it works will always try to make you get around 50% w/l ratio and can't be used to make conclusions about balance. Also while protoss is the most represented race in diamond, it is the least represented one in top 200. So protoss isn't really doing that great.

The tournaments are much better benchmark and GSL #3 is just ridiculous. I predict there won't be a single protoss by RO16.



The thing is that early game protoss is usually forced to play in a specific way, so it's really hard to come up with new openings. Especially in PvT you're pretty much forced to get robo and going any other tech path is just a blind shot. At the same time terran can open almost anything and be safe.

I don't personally feel much of the imbalance, although I think that PvZ got harder since the patch, but there's quite a lot of evidence that protoss has issues as a race. For example:
Blizzard said they are taking a lot of things into account including GSL results, ladder and pro player's opinions. That's really the right thing to do. They shouldnt just look at stats and number as much as to why protoss is doing so well/bad. In GSL, I can honestly say that protoss players really arent as good as zerg/terran players. Stats can be misleading.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomDash View Post
The only way marauders should be nerfed is if Protoss tier 3 units are nerfed. I have no problem with Marauder being nerfed if they balance out the late game Protoss units to make up for it. Though if the Marauder is nerfed they better nerf the roach as well because that **** will be nuts. In its current form the roach is probably a little too good, especially vs Protoss. vs Terran its OK but if you nerf the Marauder you better nerf the roach.. or I'll take a slight siege tank vs armored buff.

I don't think the Marauder is the problem though.. I think it's that the banshee forces robotech which gives T so many more options, and P a very predictable play style. Maybe hallucinated observers!?
That sounds reasonable. Or maybe increase stalker attack speed (or higher damage) while nerfing T3.
Random name
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 4930k Asus P9X79 LE ATI HD5850 G.SKILL 4x4gb 2133mhz 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Samsung EVO 840 Seagate Barracuda Noctua NH-D14 W 8.1 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell 24" 1920x1200 Tt eSports Poseiden brown Seasonic X-850 Fractal F4 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Logitech G9x Steelseries Musiland 02 DAC KRK RP5 & Dayton SUB-80 
  hide details  
Reply
Random name
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 4930k Asus P9X79 LE ATI HD5850 G.SKILL 4x4gb 2133mhz 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Samsung EVO 840 Seagate Barracuda Noctua NH-D14 W 8.1 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell 24" 1920x1200 Tt eSports Poseiden brown Seasonic X-850 Fractal F4 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Logitech G9x Steelseries Musiland 02 DAC KRK RP5 & Dayton SUB-80 
  hide details  
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: PC Gaming
Overclock.net › Forums › Video Games › PC Gaming › [Official] Starcraft 2 Strategy & Discussion Thread