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post #811 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by thiru View Post
Wow they can do that?
.
The Burrow upgrade enables a player to hide his Banelings and have them act as a trap. When the opponent runs over your Banelings, detonate while burrowed to wipe out entire groups by surprise.



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post #812 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dom_sufc View Post
The Burrow upgrade enables a player to hide his Banelings and have them act as a trap. When the opponent runs over your Banelings, detonate while burrowed to wipe out entire groups by surprise.



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Thankfully that's never happened to me yet...

Dom post here
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post #813 of 25319
Anybody know of some good 2v2 or 3v3 Starcraft Battle Report vids out there? From my numerous youtube / google searches, all the "Pro" / "Platinum" team battles comprise of a bunch of tards having their asses handed to them single handedly by some dude named David Lee.

Are there any skilled teams out there capable of beating this guy? Or even offering him a challenge? Just curious. I'm not the guys agent or anything but damn he's good.
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post #814 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tchernobyl View Post
**** me, fighting against terran as zerg is so incredibly frustrating >.< Successful baneling bust of his wall, send in zerglings to wreck his economy (about half his svcs die before his marines/maurauders kill them all)... i hold back and try to transition to lair tech, but by the time i have anything decent, he comes waltzing in with MMM ball plus siege tanks.

It's so incredibly annoying that the baneling, without or WITH the speed boost, get quasi nullified by the maurauder low cost concussion grenade upgrade. Banelings can't even *reach* the MMM ball, unless you have so many banelings that you likely spent twice as much gas on them as he did on maurauders....
There's a lot of imbalance currently present in TvZ matchups. This has been shown time and again in pro-level play. Zerg just simply lack the unit variation/composition to matchup with a walled-in Terran, who can deny scouting/most rushes (while scouting freely with his scan), while the Zerg player cannot wall-in.

There's also very little a Zerg player can do versus MMM balls, because the hard counter for those ground forces in Ultralisks likely won't be reached in time by the Zerg player, who's going to be forced to go ling + Muta and still most likely lose, since Terrans can transition to Vikings almost instantaneously.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thiru View Post
meh try fighting against MM's as Protoss. I haven't been able to tech to colossus fast enough so far... if the terran's macro is at my level or better I basically lose if he goes MM's.
I am a Protoss player and generally I have no problem successfully fending off early MMM balls that try to rush. I try to let the Terran player waltz in my base, deny the ramp entrance via constant Sentry shields while having a wall of DTs OUTSIDE my base, picking off as many units as they can and pulling back as the Terran continues to waste scans. I engage when I have the number superiority.

However, engaging an MMM ball in a head-to-head battle is a much, much more difficult situation for the Protoss player. For one, in order to properly counter this, we need pretty much the entire tech tree in play. That's ridiculous in itself, nevermind the cost of anything past Tier 1 units, let alone how much our structures cost compared to what the Terran player needs for Marine/Marauders (a Barracks with Tech Lab, lol). A Terran player can still romp even if he decided against getting Medivacs.

A typical Protoss ground force encounter against an MMM ball requires the Protoss player to have Sentries using Force Field/Guardian Shield constantly during the battle, microing Collosi out of target or focus fire range, microing High Templars trying to use PsiStorm, making sure the Zealots are in front tanking damage and micro-ing what few Stalkers are in the combination with Blink for a decent surround.

Nevermind that we'll actually be vastly outnumbered, since it costs a RAPE amount of resources (particularly gas, which Protoss rely on for everything outside of Zealots) just to be able to tech to Collosi or High Templars, the structures it costs for their NECESSARY upgrades, and the upgrades themselves! And all that requires intimate micro during battle, just to counter Terran Tier 1 units. It's pretty ridiculous, especially since all the Terran player has to do is spam A-click and hit "t" once in a blue moon for Stim.

Terrans right now just have too good of a defensive opening (being able to wall-in completely without the need for units to plug holes), too good early harass tactics (Hellion/Reaper rushes, lings are prevented by wall-in and Protoss have no early harass, and if we see Reapers we have to try and go fast Stalkers or commit to a Forge), the ability to deny scouting completely until the enemy techs up to Lair/Robotics Facility just to have observers while the Terran player is able to freely scan (leaving the Z/P behind in economy as the Terran player can commit those resources to additional Marines/Marauders or hold back and use the scan intel for appropriate counters) and then of course, Terran has a Tier 1 unit composition that is countered by Z/P units that either cost too much to match the Terran player in numbers or the hard counters require too much time/resources to tech to and won't be reached in time before MMM comes knocking at the door.

If you're a Zerg or Protoss player, the imbalances are fairly simple to see with regard to Terran. Pro players know this and some of the top Terran players in the world have said that Terran might be a little imbalanced right now. 91/200 of the top players in the ladder right now are Terran. There's simply TOO MANY things that Terrans are good at, and their Tier 1/1.5 unit composition requires MUCH more micro/macro/teching-up on the Z/P side JUST TO COUNTER!!! (Marauders, i am talking to you and your stupid 100min./25 gas cost that hard counters my Stalkers 125min./50gas cost and nullifies my Zealots with concussive shot!)

Ok, enough. Hopefully it won't be for naught as I stick it out with Protoss until the eventual Terran nerf comes.
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post #815 of 25319
I don't see how this new patch is going to do anything... =\\

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/692221
    
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post #816 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Epona View Post
I don't see how this new patch is going to do anything... =\\

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/692221
The ultralisk change is somewhat confusing (the removal of ram makes sense, more normal CLEAVING attack = more buildings and units being hit... however, damage reduction, ***?)... but the siege tank nerf is ABSOLUTELY AWESOME. It doesn't one shot zerglings if they have any armor (though a +dmg upgrade to tanks nullifies all armor on zerglings) and will hurt hydras even less. Roaches still get hit hard but they had plenty of HP in the first place.
post #817 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcde7ago View Post
I am a Protoss player and generally I have no problem successfully fending off early MMM balls that try to rush. I try to let the Terran player waltz in my base, deny the ramp entrance via constant Sentry shields while having a wall of DTs OUTSIDE my base, picking off as many units as they can and pulling back as the Terran continues to waste scans. I engage when I have the number superiority.

However, engaging an MMM ball in a head-to-head battle is a much, much more difficult situation for the Protoss player. For one, in order to properly counter this, we need pretty much the entire tech tree in play. That's ridiculous in itself, nevermind the cost of anything past Tier 1 units, let alone how much our structures cost compared to what the Terran player needs for Marine/Marauders (a Barracks with Tech Lab, lol). A Terran player can still romp even if he decided against getting Medivacs.

A typical Protoss ground force encounter against an MMM ball requires the Protoss player to have Sentries using Force Field/Guardian Shield constantly during the battle, microing Collosi out of target or focus fire range, microing High Templars trying to use PsiStorm, making sure the Zealots are in front tanking damage and micro-ing what few Stalkers are in the combination with Blink for a decent surround.

Nevermind that we'll actually be vastly outnumbered, since it costs a RAPE amount of resources (particularly gas, which Protoss rely on for everything outside of Zealots) just to be able to tech to Collosi or High Templars, the structures it costs for their NECESSARY upgrades, and the upgrades themselves! And all that requires intimate micro during battle, just to counter Terran Tier 1 units. It's pretty ridiculous, especially since all the Terran player has to do is spam A-click and hit "t" once in a blue moon for Stim.

Terrans right now just have too good of a defensive opening (being able to wall-in completely without the need for units to plug holes), too good early harass tactics (Hellion/Reaper rushes, lings are prevented by wall-in and Protoss have no early harass, and if we see Reapers we have to try and go fast Stalkers or commit to a Forge), the ability to deny scouting completely until the enemy techs up to Lair/Robotics Facility just to have observers while the Terran player is able to freely scan (leaving the Z/P behind in economy as the Terran player can commit those resources to additional Marines/Marauders or hold back and use the scan intel for appropriate counters) and then of course, Terran has a Tier 1 unit composition that is countered by Z/P units that either cost too much to match the Terran player in numbers or the hard counters require too much time/resources to tech to and won't be reached in time before MMM comes knocking at the door.

If you're a Zerg or Protoss player, the imbalances are fairly simple to see with regard to Terran. Pro players know this and some of the top Terran players in the world have said that Terran might be a little imbalanced right now. 91/200 of the top players in the ladder right now are Terran. There's simply TOO MANY things that Terrans are good at, and their Tier 1/1.5 unit composition requires MUCH more micro/macro/teching-up on the Z/P side JUST TO COUNTER!!! (Marauders, i am talking to you and your stupid 100min./25 gas cost that hard counters my Stalkers 125min./50gas cost and nullifies my Zealots with concussive shot!)

Ok, enough. Hopefully it won't be for naught as I stick it out with Protoss until the eventual Terran nerf comes.
Thanks for the tips. I've just had my first practice matches against Terran MM today too

I agree, it's incredibly annoying that it requires this much teching/microing to counter someone who's only using friggin barracks and a tech lab.

Knowing a terran is going to MM, which tech tree would you go first? (DT, immortal, colossus, HT or even VD?)

edit: no news of adding cross region custom games in that patch memo either
Edited by thiru - 8/27/10 at 12:09pm
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post #818 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by thiru View Post
Thanks for the tips. I've just had my first practice matches against Terran MM today too

I agree, it's incredibly annoying that it requires this much teching/microing to counter someone who's only using friggin barracks and a tech lab.

Knowing a terran is going to MM, which tech tree would you go first? (DT, immortal, colossus, HT or even VD?)
I'd go with a large number of Zealots, Sentries for Guardian Shield/FF, and Immortals.

I'd skip Stalker production almost entirely and save their gas cost for Immortals, although you WILL need the Zealot Charge upgrade and a Twilight Council anyways. But a combination of Chargelots/Sentries/Immortals should be fine until you can tech up to Collosi with Extended Thermal Lance or get some High Templars with PsiStorm in the mix. If you can hold with the above units, I might consider going Void Rays and foregoing Colossi/High Templars depending on your macro. You'll have to prevent the Terran player from expanding with some harass while expanding on your own though if you go VRs. Then go for a two front attack, constantly attacking his front while your Void Rays go around and attack from his flank.

Oh, and if he's started to line up siege tanks in the front of his main, focus on his expansions. Continually pump out Zealots though.
Edited by jcde7ago - 8/27/10 at 12:16pm
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post #819 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcde7ago View Post
I'd go with a large number of Zealots, Sentries for Guardian Shield/FF, and Immortals.

I'd skip Stalker production almost entirely and save their gas cost for Immortals, although you WILL need the Zealot Charge upgrade and a Twilight Council anyways. But a combination of Chargelots/Sentries/Immortals should be fine until you can tech up to Collosi with Extended Thermal Lance or get some High Templars with PsiStorm in the mix. If you can hold with the above units, I might consider going Void Rays and foregoing Colossi/High Templars depending on your macro. You'll have to prevent the Terran player from expanding with some harass while expanding on your own though if you go VRs. Then go for a two front attack, constantly attacking his front while your Void Rays go around and attack from his flank.

Oh, and if he's started to line up siege tanks in the front of his main, focus on his expansions. Continually pump out Zealots though.
Thanks. Immortals with mass zealots makes sense (and sentries of course).

But I've also been told that terran players hate psy storm more than immortals. High templars have the added bonus (I think it's a bonus...) of being warpgate units. But since I'm going to get a robotics anyway for scouting... argh confused newb is confused.
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post #820 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by thiru View Post
Thanks. Immortals with mass zealots makes sense (and sentries of course).

But I've also been told that terran players hate psy storm more than immortals. High templars have the added bonus (I think it's a bonus...) of being warpgate units. But since I'm going to get a robotics anyway for scouting... argh confused newb is confused.
A good Terran player will mix in Ghosts with his MM/MMM ball to nullify High Templars/PsiStorm as well as take down your shields with an EMP. The reason they hate PsiStorm is because you still have the battle advantage if you were able to cast a couple storms before either your Temps were focus-fired or before you were EMP'd. It is pretty much always a good idea to have at least 2 High Templars out there, as getting a storm or two off is so key in a battle against an MMM ball, but if you're going to consider the energy charge time and gas cost of a High Templar, you might not have the time to get your Void Rays or much else.

But Immortals and their shields are key in an MMM battle. Without Immortals, you won't stand a chance. They can pretty much 1-shot Marauders who are already being attacked by your Chargelots while your 'Lots and the Immortals themselves tank a lot of damage. Unless you're vastly outnumbered, this composition will work wonders against an MMM ball.
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i7 5960X @ 4.6 Ghz (1.32v) ASUS X99-Deluxe 2x Nvidia Titan Xp SLI 32GB Crucial DDR4 2666 (4x8GB) 
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2x Samsung 850 Pro 256GB SSD (OS) 4x Crucial M4 256GB SSD 14x Corsair SP120 Quiet Edition 4x EK-RAM Monarch Module (Black) 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
EK-XTOP w/ Dual D5 Pumps, EK-X3 250 Res, EK-D5 ... 2x Alphacool NexXxoS UT60 480mm Rads (1x top mo... 2x Alphacool NexXxos UT60 240mm Rads (1x front ... PrimoChill Rigid Acrylic tubing (White), Advanc... 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
2x EK-FC Titan X Pascal Nickel GPU Blocks w/ EK... 2x EK-RAM Monarch X4 Nickel/Acetal CSQ RAM Bloc... Windows 10 Pro, 64-bit 1x Acer Predator X34 @ 3440x1440p 34" IPS + 100... 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech G810 Orion Spectrum EVGA SuperNova P2 1600W Platinum CaseLabs SMA8 (Gunmetal Exterior/Black Interior... Logitech G502 Proteus Core 
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Logitech G440 Audioengine HD6 w/ S8 Subwoofer Campfire Audio Vega IEMs Schiit Magni 2 Uber Amp 
AudioOtherOther
Schiit Modi 2 Uber DAC NZXT Sentry Mesh Fan Controller NZXT HUE RGB LED Controller 
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