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[Official] Starcraft 2 Strategy & Discussion Thread - Page 87

post #861 of 25319
I am just going to chime in and say that for those who keep track of the pro scene, the imbalances of some aspects of Terran, ESPECIALLY in TvZ matchups, have been clearly shown. Even the top Terran players in the world acknowledge this.

Zerg are a great race, provided that you know how to play them correctly. The problem is, playing them "correctly" means that they are far, FAR less accessible to players below Diamond. The micro/macro level associated with playing Zerg is FAR less passive than Protoss, but especially compared to Terran. You've got to be very, very intimate with your micro and macro to make Zerg work at the upper/pro levels of play. And that to me spells imbalance. There is no way you can make a race FAR less accessible than the other two. Zerg needs a buff. And i am a Protoss player.

So while DoomDash might not have a problem being a Diamond Zerg and holding his own, the same really can't be said for the rest of the ladder. Zerg comprise 18% of the top 200 ladder. That is a ridiculously low fraction for a pool of 200 players. I've watched pro Zerg players play Terran players of lesser skill at the pro-level and the Zerg players pretty much cannot afford to make a mistake AT ALL during the match, or they are done. And in the end, the Terrans win out most of the time (unless you're IdrA. And even he lost to MorroW, a Terran player, 3-1, in a best of 5...and IdrA is considered to be the best Zerg player in the world right now). You know a race is imba when most of the pros refuse to play it or decided to switch to Terran.
Edited by jcde7ago - 8/27/10 at 9:14pm
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post #862 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tchernobyl View Post
And let us not mention the bane of any mineral line, the reaper. Why in the hell would you give *free* cliffjumping to such an early/cheap unit? Stalkers still need blink cliffjump, and even then they need sight.
I totally agree with this. The first time I used reapers on a hit-and-run against Protoss mineral miners it felt like I was cheating. I smashed a bunch of stuff and skipped away over a cliff when the guards showed up. And I did it again and again. It was like taking candy from a baby. I honestly think Blizzard should either make reapers a helluva lot more expensive or just get rid of them altogether. In the Magic card game when an unreasonably powerful card is identified players say the card is "broken" and lots of tournaments prohibit those cards. I think reapers are broken.
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post #863 of 25319
this was fun to say the least. 90 vikings ftw?

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post #864 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas Lamer View Post
I totally agree with this. The first time I used reapers on a hit-and-run against Protoss mineral miners it felt like I was cheating. I smashed a bunch of stuff and skipped away over a cliff when the guards showed up. And I did it again and again. It was like taking candy from a baby. I honestly think Blizzard should either make reapers a helluva lot more expensive or just get rid of them altogether. In the Magic card game when an unreasonably powerful card is identified players say the card is "broken" and lots of tournaments prohibit those cards. I think reapers are broken.
I actually just kind of spoke to this in my previous post somewhat.

At the pro level, the Finals of the Intel Extreme Masters challenge last week came down to IdrA, considered to be the best Zerg player in the world (he's an American playing for a Korean pro-team in Korea), and MorroW, a Swedish Terran player.

In the 4 matches they played out of a best of 5, in which MorroW won 3-1, MorroW ABUSED the crap out of the 3-Rax Reaper > Marauder build. IdrA pretty much had no answers to this in 3 of the 4 matches. In the hands of a pro, this Terran opening is just outright devastating, especially to a Zerg player.

IdrA pretty much was behind in economy if he chose to tech to Mutas quickly, or if he chose to FE, he was going to get harassed like crap by like 8-10 reapers. The only time MorroW lost was when he relied too much on Hellions instead of doing his Reaper > Marauder transition in one of the matches, and that's only because IdrA has the best macro of any pro player right now.
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post #865 of 25319
Yeah, it's kinda depressing as a zerg player sometimes.
Reapers are REALLY GOOD every early game vs zerg.

New changes should help at least a little though(+5 build time).
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post #866 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcde7ago View Post
I actually just kind of spoke to this in my previous post somewhat.

At the pro level, the Finals of the Intel Extreme Masters challenge last week came down to IdrA, considered to be the best Zerg player in the world (he's an American playing for a Korean pro-team in Korea), and MorroW, a Swedish Terran player.

In the 4 matches they played out of a best of 5, in which MorroW won 3-1, MorroW ABUSED the crap out of the 3-Rax Reaper > Marauder build. IdrA pretty much had no answers to this in 3 of the 4 matches. In the hands of a pro, this Terran opening is just outright devastating, especially to a Zerg player.

IdrA pretty much was behind in economy if he chose to tech to Mutas quickly, or if he chose to FE, he was going to get harassed like crap by like 8-10 reapers. The only time MorroW lost was when he relied too much on Hellions instead of doing his Reaper > Marauder transition in one of the matches, and that's only because IdrA has the best macro of any pro player right now.
You saw this? How do you see these matches? I'd like to see the top players in action.
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post #867 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas Lamer View Post
You saw this? How do you see these matches? I'd like to see the top players in action.
http://www.sc2replayed.com/

That is one of the sites I go to for replays. To see some professional matches I am sure you can find those on youtube.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Realcacheese View Post
Reapers are REALLY GOOD every early game vs zerg.
Every time I play a 2v2 (and sometimes 1v1) as protoss facing any terran player I generally try to build cannons near my base just in case they go reapers.

Terran is probably one of the races I find to be more difficult to play against since I find most people going MM balls and that just leaves me to go zealot,stalker and sentrys and then I still need to micro and tech up more just to deal with it while the terran player just has to keep pumping out the same units the whole game.
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post #868 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas Lamer View Post
You saw this? How do you see these matches? I'd like to see the top players in action.
I saw it streamed live last week.

Yeah, the replays are one thing to get for sure if you want to learn.

Also, here are the matches on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...ra+morrow&aq=f

It's the first 4 results (or at least it should be).
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post #869 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by [nK]Sharp View Post
http://www.sc2replayed.com/

That is one of the sites I go to for replays. To see some professional matches I am sure you can find those on youtube.



Every time I play a 2v2 (and sometimes 1v1) as protoss facing any terran player I generally try to build cannons near my base just in case they go reapers.

Terran is probably one of the races I find to be more difficult to play against since I find most people going MM balls and that just leaves me to go zealot,stalker and sentrys and then I still need to micro and tech up more just to deal with it while the terran player just has to keep pumping out the same units the whole game.
Stop Stalker production after a handful and tech immediately up to Immortals. You should already have a Robo Bay since you need observers, so that shouldn't be an issue. But I agree with you; as a Protoss player, our structures/upgrades are rape enough on resources, moreso than Terran, and yet we need the entire tech tree it seems like to produce hard counters for Terran Tier 1 units. (I outlined this in detail a page or two back)!
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post #870 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcde7ago View Post
"Hes building a supply depot " Seriously, lol :/
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