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[Official] Starcraft 2 Strategy & Discussion Thread - Page 88

post #871 of 25319
Wow! I've gotta be THE worst player out there then. With all this talk about the imbalance of the zerg and how that terran player beat out the top zerg player in the world. I can't beat a zerg player as terran to save my life. And I only play terran. I think I'm just gonna give up. Don't know if you can with the online sync to the key code but I'll be giving away my copy as a freebie in another thread. Good luck guys it was fun but the beatdowns were just demoralizing.
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post #872 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcde7ago View Post
I am just going to chime in and say that for those who keep track of the pro scene, the imbalances of some aspects of Terran, ESPECIALLY in TvZ matchups, have been clearly shown. Even the top Terran players in the world acknowledge this.

Zerg are a great race, provided that you know how to play them correctly. The problem is, playing them "correctly" means that they are far, FAR less accessible to players below Diamond. The micro/macro level associated with playing Zerg is FAR less passive than Protoss, but especially compared to Terran. You've got to be very, very intimate with your micro and macro to make Zerg work at the upper/pro levels of play. And that to me spells imbalance. There is no way you can make a race FAR less accessible than the other two. Zerg needs a buff. And i am a Protoss player.

So while DoomDash might not have a problem being a Diamond Zerg and holding his own, the same really can't be said for the rest of the ladder. Zerg comprise 18% of the top 200 ladder. That is a ridiculously low fraction for a pool of 200 players. I've watched pro Zerg players play Terran players of lesser skill at the pro-level and the Zerg players pretty much cannot afford to make a mistake AT ALL during the match, or they are done. And in the end, the Terrans win out most of the time (unless you're IdrA. And even he lost to MorroW, a Terran player, 3-1, in a best of 5...and IdrA is considered to be the best Zerg player in the world right now). You know a race is imba when most of the pros refuse to play it or decided to switch to Terran.
Well first off I will say I am a Diamond Terran player ( http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/312178/1/DoomDash/ ). I would be a Zerg player because I love playing ZvT and ZvP but ZvZ is by far the dullest match up in the game, and because of that I went to Terran exclusively.

Second off, You forget to mention that in general that there are just not as many Zerg players in the world as their are Terran ( almost 2:1 i believe ), so listing that there are more Terran players in the top 200 isn't really a surprise. It also isn't a surprise considering the single player campaign is Terran, so people got the most familiar with Terran first. I mean we can all throw around stats that look like they favor people. I could mention that there are more Zerg players in Diamond per player than any other race, but that's not looking at the whole picture.

Also, I most the pros have been pretty hush hush on balance. I do hear people complaining about Terran occasionally, but I really believe its too early to tell even for the pros. I'll get into this more in a second.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jcde7ago View Post
I actually just kind of spoke to this in my previous post somewhat.

At the pro level, the Finals of the Intel Extreme Masters challenge last week came down to IdrA, considered to be the best Zerg player in the world (he's an American playing for a Korean pro-team in Korea), and MorroW, a Swedish Terran player.

In the 4 matches they played out of a best of 5, in which MorroW won 3-1, MorroW ABUSED the crap out of the 3-Rax Reaper > Marauder build. IdrA pretty much had no answers to this in 3 of the 4 matches. In the hands of a pro, this Terran opening is just outright devastating, especially to a Zerg player.

IdrA pretty much was behind in economy if he chose to tech to Mutas quickly, or if he chose to FE, he was going to get harassed like crap by like 8-10 reapers. The only time MorroW lost was when he relied too much on Hellions instead of doing his Reaper > Marauder transition in one of the matches, and that's only because IdrA has the best macro of any pro player right now.
If you listen to some of the interviews about that event a lot of people admitted that idrA just didn't play that well. I'm not saying thats entirely it, but from what everyone is saying the reaper strat that marrow was doing was a pretty fresh style / build that idrA probably didn't have much experience dealing with. I also know that Diamaga ( sp ) another top Z player helped marrow perfect that build, so it makes perfect sense that it was as effective as it was. This is why I say it's really to early to tell. In a month or two assuming balance wasn't changed Z could have some fresh new build that could easily counter the reaper build.

In SC1/BW it took YEARS for people to realize X build was actually good, or X race was good. Before Boxer people thought Terran sucked... and that's far from the truth.

Maybe the match up is unbalanced, but it's certainly not as bad as most of these Z players on the internet make it out to be. Believe me when I tell you I could beat most of them with any race / it doesn't matter if I'm playing Terran.

Last thing on Marrow, Artosis even said Marrows Terran is sick / scary, nothing to do with Terran as whole, just Marrow being a sick ass player.
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post #873 of 25319
I think I spelled a bunch of peoples names wrong.. eh w/e.

and idra is a stubborn MACRO only player who is about as creative as a fetus. hardly would call him what Zerg should be.
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post #874 of 25319
Ok guys, I got a trial key, but I cannot make the Blizzard Downloader work.

P2P does NOT play well with my ISP/Router, and I can't make it work (tried for a long time).

I've tried turning off P2P in the program, but it still won't work.

Code:
08/27/10 23:36:29.0954 Bonjour service is running.
08/27/10 23:36:29.0957 Downloader initializing...
08/27/10 23:36:29.0959 Loading meta data file...

08/27/10 23:36:29.0989 Creating Firewall interface
08/27/10 23:36:29.0991 Success!
08/27/10 23:36:29.0994 Enabling Microsoft Firewall UPnP Framework
08/27/10 23:36:29.0996 Success!
08/27/10 23:36:29.0998 Enabling Blizzard Downloader on Windows Firewall
08/27/10 23:36:29.1000 Success!
08/27/10 23:36:29.1002 Creating Firewall interface
08/27/10 23:36:29.1004 Success!
08/27/10 23:36:29.1006 Creating Microsoft Firewall Rule: Blizzard Downloader: 3724
08/27/10 23:36:29.1008 Success!
08/27/10 23:36:29.1010 Creating UPnP interface
08/27/10 23:36:29.1012 Getting UPnPDevice Information
08/27/10 23:36:29.1015 Found Bonjour service and registering a local peer.
08/27/10 23:36:29.1017 Connecting to: http://us.tracker.worldofwarcraft.com:3724/announce with 1
08/27/10 23:36:38.4787 UPnP device Found:
08/27/10 23:36:38.4809 Manufacturer: D-Link Systems
08/27/10 23:36:38.4829 Model: Xtreme N GIGABIT Router
08/27/10 23:36:38.4854 Model Number: DIR-655
08/27/10 23:36:38.4873 Device URL: http://www.dlink.com
08/27/10 23:36:38.4948 Could not find port mappings on UPnP Device.
08/27/10 23:36:38.4971 Add UPnP Device port forward: 3724
08/27/10 23:36:38.5093 External port has been successfully mapped.
08/27/10 23:36:48.7733 Connected in 58+21342 ms
08/27/10 23:36:48.7758 Received an error code from tracker: 0
Any ideas? Or an alternate place to download it?
post #875 of 25319
I hate to say it but you could download a cracked copy and just use a legit trail key.

BTW I have a legit trial key for anyone who will spread some rep ( i want in the fs section ! ) .
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post #876 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas Lamer View Post
You saw this? How do you see these matches? I'd like to see the top players in action.
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays?f...r-tournament=3

Hey, lookie what I found
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post #877 of 25319
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomDash View Post
Well first off I will say I am a Diamond Terran player ( http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/312178/1/DoomDash/ ). I would be a Zerg player because I love playing ZvT and ZvP but ZvZ is by far the dullest match up in the game, and because of that I went to Terran exclusively.

Second off, You forget to mention that in general that there are just not as many Zerg players in the world as their are Terran ( almost 2:1 i believe ), so listing that there are more Terran players in the top 200 isn't really a surprise. It also isn't a surprise considering the single player campaign is Terran, so people got the most familiar with Terran first. I mean we can all throw around stats that look like they favor people. I could mention that there are more Zerg players in Diamond per player than any other race, but that's not looking at the whole picture.

Also, I most the pros have been pretty hush hush on balance. I do hear people complaining about Terran occasionally, but I really believe its too early to tell even for the pros. I'll get into this more in a second.



If you listen to some of the interviews about that event a lot of people admitted that idrA just didn't play that well. I'm not saying thats entirely it, but from what everyone is saying the reaper strat that marrow was doing was a pretty fresh style / build that idrA probably didn't have much experience dealing with. I also know that Diamaga ( sp ) another top Z player helped marrow perfect that build, so it makes perfect sense that it was as effective as it was. This is why I say it's really to early to tell. In a month or two assuming balance wasn't changed Z could have some fresh new build that could easily counter the reaper build.

In SC1/BW it took YEARS for people to realize X build was actually good, or X race was good. Before Boxer people thought Terran sucked... and that's far from the truth.

Maybe the match up is unbalanced, but it's certainly not as bad as most of these Z players on the internet make it out to be. Believe me when I tell you I could beat most of them with any race / it doesn't matter if I'm playing Terran.

Last thing on Marrow, Artosis even said Marrows Terran is sick / scary, nothing to do with Terran as whole, just Marrow being a sick ass player.
Well, that brings me to my point; Zerg in general are a far less accessible race compared to the other two.

The micro/macro level for Zerg really is on another level compared to the other two races. And given the very limited composition of the most popular Zerg builds, it's really just a Zerg player being far more skilled than the other player if he beats them.

Most Zs on the ladder haven't developed the skills necessary yet to be able to play Zerg fully, so we'll give that time. But the fact that the other two races allow for a much more passive playstyle compared to the minute micro/macro of Zerg is one of the reasons why it's an underused in the first place. It isn't just because of the single player campaign; heck I doubt most of the top-200 even got serious with the single player campaign, lol.
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post #878 of 25319
You can have that opinion all you like, but I know the power of the swarm! Zerg is fantastic in this game. I blame ZvZ for the lack of Zerg players.. baneling wars gets old quick.
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post #879 of 25319
Maybe the game will be fine once they actually finish it and get the other two campaigns out (which I assume will bring new units and what not).
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i7 930 @ 4ghz HT Asus Rampage III Extreme ATI 5830 Corsair Dominator GT 6gb CAS 7 
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post #880 of 25319
As a zerg player myself, I actually find ZvZ the most fun. It's more dynamic and, well, balanced, since we're fighting with the same tools. vs Protoss can be a tad frustrating at times (positively absolutely and totally hate mass stalkers), and vs terran, I just want to beat someone to death. Preferably the opposing player, or the people responsible for balance
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Overclock.net › Forums › Video Games › PC Gaming › [Official] Starcraft 2 Strategy & Discussion Thread