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MSI GTX465 Twin Frozr II Golden Edition Owners Club - Page 392

post #3911 of 5083
Quote:
Originally Posted by brettjv View Post
Even IF each bios was custom for each card (with 2 specific SM's being disabled) as long as all the SM's actually work (evidenced by it unlocking and working okay), you'd still be able to use any other custom bios ... it might disable 2 different SM's ... but that wouldn't break it because all 7 SM's onboard actually work
But it still doesn't explain to me why it's possible to just use any GTX 465 BIOS; even a random stock one.
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post #3912 of 5083
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post
But it still doesn't explain to me why it's possible to just use any GTX 465 BIOS; even a random stock one.
well that's the thing if there is anything "special" about these bios at all it came from the start. from nVidia. remember MSI was not the only company doing this. the first cards that were noticed to be able to flash to a 470 were the Point of View cards.
post #3913 of 5083
Quote:
Originally Posted by krazzymoose View Post
well that's the thing if there is anything "special" about these bios at all it came from the start. from nVidia. remember MSI was not the only company doing this. the first cards that were noticed to be able to flash to a 470 were the Point of View cards.
I know. And so that's just another thing that makes me believe that there is nothing special about the BIOSes that these cards were shipped with. I mean, combine that with the fact that I can use any GTX 465 BIOS with my card, and it all points to this: these cards didn't come with a special version of the GTX 465's BIOS.
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post #3914 of 5083
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post
I know. And so that's just another thing that makes me believe that there is nothing special about the BIOSes that these cards were shipped with. I mean, combine that with the fact that I can use any GTX 465 BIOS with my card, and it all points to this: these cards didn't come with a special version of the GTX 465's BIOS.
agreed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangerscott View Post
Evga has B-stock of the X58 sli for $90. I might order one just so I can run three of these in benchmarks.
whoa wait what? $90 damn too bad I'm broke and don't have an Intel chip
post #3915 of 5083
LOL wrong thread
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post #3916 of 5083
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post
But it still doesn't explain to me why it's possible to just use any GTX 465 BIOS; even a random stock one.
Sure it does. I'll say it again, in a slightly different way ...

You get a 465, with a 'custom' bios that disables (say) SM's 6 + 7. Ostensibly these are teh 'bad' SM's.

But then you flash to a 470, and everything works perfect. Ergo, all 7 SM's are actually fine on this card.

Then you flash some other random (but custom) 465 bios, and this one disables SM's 1 + 2.

Since you've already established that all 7 SM's work (by successfully flashing to 470 and having the card work), any 465 bios is still going to work fine/identically, because it's actually *immaterial* which 2 SM's are disabled on this card ... because they all work.

You get me brother?

(note: I should say here I AGREE that the bioses probably aren't custom, but I'm explaining why they COULD be).
Edited by brettjv - 9/21/10 at 12:41am
    
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post #3917 of 5083
Quote:
Originally Posted by brettjv View Post
Sure it does.

You get a 465, with a 'custom' bios that disables SM's 6 + 7. Ostensibly these are teh 'bad' SM's.

But then you flash to a 470, and everything works perfect. Ergo, all the SM's are actually fine on this card.

Then you flash some other random (but custom) 465 bios, and this one disables SM's 1 + 2.

Since you've already established that all 7 SM's work (by flashing to 470), any 465 bios is still going to work fine, because it's actually immaterial which 2 SM's are disabled on this card.

You get me brother?

(note: I should say here I AGREE that the bioses probably aren't custom, but I'm explaining why they COULD be).
But if a GTX 465 BIOS from a reference GTX 465 works on these cards, then what?
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post #3918 of 5083
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post
But if a GTX 465 BIOS from a reference GTX 465 works on these cards, then what?
What does 'reference' mean in this context?

If we assume there are custom bioses for each 465 card that target two specific SP's that they determined at the factory (based on whatever criteria they use) were the two that 'should be' disabled, then as long as you know that all 7 SM's actually WORK on a particular card (evidenced by it flashing to a 470 okay), then you could flash that particular card with ANY 465 bios that disables ANY two shaders ... and the card would still work. Because you know all 7 SM's work.
Edited by brettjv - 9/21/10 at 12:55am
    
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post #3919 of 5083
Quote:
Originally Posted by brettjv View Post
What does 'reference' mean in this context?

If we assume there are custom bioses for each 465 card that target two specific SP's that they determined at the factory based on whatever criteria were the two that 'should be' disabled, then as long as you know that all 7 SM's actually WORK on a particular card (evidenced by it flashing to a 470 okay), then you could flash that particular card with ANY 465 bios that disables ANY two shaders ... and the card would still work. Because you know all 7 SM's work.
Reference, meaning any GTX 465 that only comes with 8 memory chips and the GF100-030-A3 chip as opposed to the 10 memory chips and GF100-275-A3 chip that the "unlockable" GTX 465s have. So, it means "A GTX 465 that was manufactured as a GTX 465 and doesn't have any extra stuff on the PCB. It's nothing but a GTX 465".

So, "reference" means: it is nothing but a GTX 465. The BIOS it has is just a standard GTX 465 BIOS.

Either way: I'm not able to get this deep into the technicalities. I may be a geek, but I'm mostly only capable of saying "Hey, it works and that's all that matters to me". Well, at least concerning this. I mean, all that matters to me about my Golden Edition is that I can use any GTX 465 BIOS and any GTX 470 BIOS. However, not all GTX 470 BIOSes are perfectly stable with my card.
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post #3920 of 5083
Oh ... well, I dunno for sure, but assuming that the 030 bios basically works the same way, I wouldn't think it changes the equation all that much. But ... do we even know what happens if one flashes their 275-based 465/470 with an 030-based 465 bios?

I pretty much shared what I think about this whole thing in two rather lengthy posts above, but to reiterate I think these unlockable 465's are just 470's, plain and simple.

When nV asked some of their partners (like PoV, MSI, and PNY) to get out a 465 asap (before the 030 was ready) to try to compete with 5830/5850, these partners took their already-built but less desirable 470 boards (based on something like the lack of ability to OC highly w/o that much voltage), and flashed them with a bios that disables two random SM's and one random memory controller, and put them out as 465's, per nV's request.

I'd be surprised if it's any more complicated than that.

But if it is, and each card has actually had specific SM's and memory controllers marked as 'faulty', then I think it's likely that they are marked as such at the 'hardware' level, not the bios level. And that the difference between a 465 bios and a 470 bios is that the 465 bios will 'look for' these markings and disable SM's based on their presence, whereas a 470 bios will not.

Thus, all in all I agree that the bioses are agnostic in terms of which SM's get disabled. But they don't HAVE to be, based on the observations that we've currently made
Edited by brettjv - 9/21/10 at 1:14am
    
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