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post #1351 of 10602
Quote:
Originally Posted by pale_neon View Post
Is that supposed to be the AMD logo in the background? Looks like an arrow
I noticed that too. It is suppose to be the other half of the X. But they kinda made it look like an X and an arrow moving upward.

Maybe it means upward performance?
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post #1352 of 10602


Er... what do think the AMD logo is if it isn't an arrow?

Look again, the design on the box is clearly based on the AMD logo, simple.

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post #1353 of 10602
I'll post this over here to save John the time of replying twice

Heres what he posted at XS

Quote:
Originally Posted by JF-AMD
Based on this conversation I have a feeling nobody here is in the semiconductor business, so let me try to explain it to you.

Engineering samples are designed to validate the design and for partners to validate their systems. They are not meant for benchmarking.

There are multiple steppings of samples, comparing one stepping to another tells you nothing unless you know WHY the stepping changed.

When we make engineering samples, we target the best yield, not the highest performance. Then we have more chips to work with. Typically you get a couple of the highest clock speed anyway, those typically stay in our labs, so it is unlikley that you see those out in the wild.

We don't even do any real performance analysis until we get the final silicon. Prior to that, we are totally focused on design validation.

Performance is determined based on the following:

1. The processor
2. The processor microcode
3. The BIOS
4. The Operating system
5. The drivers
6. The compiler code

So, unless you are looking at final silicon and you have all of the other pieces in place, making a statement about the performance of ES chips is completely pointless.

Which is why we just don't comment on those numbers. They probably aren't real. And if they are, they are not representative of what people will see when they get the real products in their hands.

Imagine making a cake. You start with a pile ingredients. You put it all in a mixing bowl. You stir it up. You put it in the oven. You let it cook. You take it out. You put frosting on it.

You are all looking at bowlful of batter and arguing about whether or not it is appetizing.
 
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post #1354 of 10602
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slappa View Post
I'll post this over here to save John the time of replying twice

Heres what he posted at XS
Cool thanks.

Then the question is, why is it that AMD can make videos about Llano's performance more than 3 months before its release, but is so tight lipped about Bulldozer?

I don't see rumors being spread about Llano, because we know that it's clearly better than Sandy Bridge as AMD has demonstrated. Everything out about Llano is positive and straight forward. Bulldozer is filled with rumors and delayed again.

It's these inconsistencies that make people wonder what's up.

I'm not sure how much longer I can hold off in building my 2nd rig waiting for Bulldozer, and I know I'm not alone. A lot of people in this forum got tired of waiting and went with Sandy Bridge.

I held off buying a Sandy Bridge laptop thanks to this video.

Edited by 2010rig - 6/13/11 at 1:40am
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post #1355 of 10602
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post
Cool thanks.

Then the question is, why is it that AMD can make videos about Llano's performance more than 3 months before its release, but is so tight lipped about Bulldozer?

I don't see rumors being spread about Llano, because we know that it's clearly better than Sandy Bridge as AMD has demonstrated. Everything out about Llano is positive and straight forward. Bulldozer is filled with rumors.

It's these inconsistencies that make people wonder what's up.

I held off buying a Sandy Bridge laptop thanks to this video. I'm not sure how much longer I can hold off in building my 2nd rig waiting for Bulldozer, and I know I'm not alone.
To be honest, I highly doubt the discretion is a result of an issue with BD itself.

This is a brand new architecture built from the ground up over the course of 5 years. There is heavy NDA and there has been little no leaks of the actual final retail performance. With such a complex business, there could be an infinite amount of reasons for the "tight lipped" nature of this release.

Llano on the other hand is based on modified K10 cores with a 6XXX GPU on die. Theres no doubt that this graphical capability can whip anything Intel has integrated. I think that is what they are trying to demonstrate. And as well, llano is their mainstream product which will produce the most revenue for AMD. So they decide to release a few numbers (as llano will be out before BD anyways). BD is mainly for server clients, and the very small niche market that this community is.

I don't think there is a correlation between BD having issues/delays/bad performance and not seeing any benchmark numbers. Even the very nature of these supposed "delays" is just speculation.

At the end of the day, we cannot really assume anything until we have the processor in hand. I personally think BD will be a success. And that doesn't mean it will blow away Intel. However it will be a huge step forward. If it does crush Intel and return the crown, then all the better for everyone.
Edited by Slappa - 6/13/11 at 1:49am
 
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post #1356 of 10602
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post
Then the question is, why is it that AMD can make videos about Llano's performance more than 3 months before its release, but is so tight lipped about Bulldozer?
Llano has already been shipped to OEM's a couple of months ago. That suggests they already have pretty good yields on Llano compared to Bulldozer. Besides, it's not as if AMD didn't have their share of troubles with Llano.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slappa View Post
Llano on the other hand is based on modified K10 cores with a 6XXX GPU on die.
Technically, while the GPU in Llano are called HD 6xxx, they're based on Redwood (HD 55x0/56x0) graphics.
Edited by rui-no-onna - 6/13/11 at 7:00am
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post #1357 of 10602
I've only been waiting since about end of april, and I'm sick of waiting
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post #1358 of 10602
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mit Namso View Post
I've only been waiting since about end of april, and I'm sick of waiting
that's it?

Some of us have been hearing that Bulldozer would be launched in 2009 back in 2007!

Quote:
"Bulldozer" to be "highest performing processor core" ever

AMD is preparing an all-new PC processor with up to 16 execution cores. Due out in the first half of 2009, the new architecture is codenamed Bulldozer.
Quote:
Bulldozer is the name, crushing Intel is the game

But what about Bulldozer? The big news is that it will form the basis of AMD's first massively multi-core PC processor with up to 16 execution cores. Bulldozer will also be fully compatible with AMD's so-called M-SPACE modular CPU design
Quote:
How fast is she, mister?

It all sounds pretty impressive on paper. But how fast will this 16-core chip be in practice? Well, according to AMD, Bulldozer is designed to be nothing less than "the highest performing single and multi-threaded compute core in history".
If AMD is to be believed, Bulldozer will improve upon every metric of CPU performance. From performance per watt to outright multi-threaded performance and old school single-threaded oomph, it's promised Bulldozer will be the new king.


http://www.techradar.com/news/comput...or-2009-146488
Edited by 2010rig - 6/18/11 at 1:54am
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post #1359 of 10602
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post
Cool thanks.

Then the question is, why is it that AMD can make videos about Llano's performance more than 3 months before its release, but is so tight lipped about Bulldozer?

I don't see rumors being spread about Llano, because we know that it's clearly better than Sandy Bridge as AMD has demonstrated. Everything out about Llano is positive and straight forward. Bulldozer is filled with rumors and delayed again.

It's these inconsistencies that make people wonder what's up.

I'm not sure how much longer I can hold off in building my 2nd rig waiting for Bulldozer, and I know I'm not alone. A lot of people in this forum got tired of waiting and went with Sandy Bridge.

I held off buying a Sandy Bridge laptop thanks to this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdPi4GPEI74
Did they do a performance demonstation or publish a benchmark? There is a big difference. We might do a performance demonstration of Interlagos prior to launch, but benchmarks will come out at launch.

Plus, Llano is in the hands of OEMs right now, it is a shipping product.
post #1360 of 10602
Quote:
Originally Posted by JF-AMD View Post
Did they do a performance demonstation or publish a benchmark? There is a big difference. We might do a performance demonstration of Interlagos prior to launch, but benchmarks will come out at launch.

Plus, Llano is in the hands of OEMs right now, it is a shipping product.
That video is from February, and yes it's a performance demonstration.

Llano is being released in June. Bulldozer was originally supposed to be released in June. Yet, I still haven't seen a performance demonstration on Bulldozer, only on Llano that's really my point.

I do recall you saying a Q2 release for BD, what exactly happened to that?

What's the real reason for the delay? Are these articles accurate in what they're reporting?

Personally, I just wonder if 90 days is enough time to create a new stepping, go into production, and then launch within that time frame.

Today I realized that I've been hearing the hype about Bulldozer for over 4 years, so it kinda explains why I'm kinda fed up of hearing the hype, without any proof to back up such hype. See my post above yours.

I know you're a server guy, and I understand none of this is your fault. But you're the closest voice we have to anyone from AMD, and we have no one else to ask these questions to. I do apologize for you having to put up with us, and I thank you for taking the time to participate in these threads.
Edited by 2010rig - 6/13/11 at 10:46am
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