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The importance of the "order" of your loop?

post #1 of 110
Thread Starter 
Have there been any studies that discuss the importance of your loop order?

I plan to have an i7 and a couple of 460's in sli in my new setup and the cleanest loop (shortest, straightest tubes), would not have me putting my best radiator in front of my CPU (the CPU will be much heavier OC'd than the 460's and they don't run that hot anyway).

I've heard people on here that are adamant about having a rad right before the reservoir, I've heard people that are adamant about having the biggest rad in front of hottest block and I've heard from some that the whole system will find an equilibrium no matter what order you use.

Does anyone have an definitive links on this topic? Much appreciated.
Edited by Corrupted - 8/20/10 at 10:44am
post #2 of 110
order is important, you will want to be cpu->smaller rad->gpu's->reservoir->pump->big Rad->cpu

reservoir and big rad can be switched if necessary
    
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post #3 of 110
Why do you say it's important when I've read many posts of other people saying eventually the temperature will equalize anyway.
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post #4 of 110
Loop order not matter but you want to take 2 things into consideration:

1. You want the resevoir just before the pump for easy filling and bleeding
2. Choose loop order to reduce complexity of the tubing (will look better and reduce restricting the tubing generates assuming less tubing and fewer bends).

Besides the above the order does not mean anything. The water goes so fast through the loop that the input and output temperature of the radiator hardly will be any different once the water temperatur reaches its equilibrium.

This has been show by tests and I am desperately looking for a link and will add it once I find it.


/Nordar
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post #5 of 110
From my experience so long as the reservoir is prior to the pump, the loop order will not impact the performance very much as the liquid throught the loop will equalize in temperature.

But.... I still try to place the radiator(s) prior to the block(s).

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post #6 of 110
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordar View Post
Loop order not matter but you want to take 2 things into consideration:

1. You want the resevoir just before the pump for easy filling and bleeding
2. Choose loop order to reduce complexity of the tubing (will look better and reduce restricting the tubing generates assuming less tubing and fewer bends).

Besides the above the order does not mean anything. The water goes so fast through the loop that the input and output temperature of the radiator hardly will be any different once the water temperatur reaches its equilibrium.

This has been show by tests and I am desperately looking for a link and will add it once I find it.


/Nordar
Well, if this is the case then it is incredibly good news for what I have planned. Thanks.
post #7 of 110
There is a more efficient design but frankly it's not worth putting any effort into figuring out the order of the loop.

The thought is, since the pump dumps a small amount of heat into the water, that if you put the radiator right before the block in your loop that the radiator will dump the heat put into the loop by the pump. The amount of heat put into the loop by the pump is negligible though and usually won't amount to anything more than 1C of difference, if any at all.

Just make sure the resevoir is right before the pump.
 
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post #8 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by BriEE View Post
Why do you say it's important when I've read many posts of other people saying eventually the temperature will equalize anyway.
I've never seen anyone in the "equilibrium" camp defend their position, but I think I know what they're trying to say.

I don't think they're trying to say that after X amount of time temperatures reach a "settling point" and are the same throughout the loop. Of course this would be rediculously false because your radiator is still receiving water that is hotter than what it is sending out... your CPU/GPU is receiving colder water than what it is sending out... so water in your loop will never be uniform in temperature.

Edit:
Quote:
The water goes so fast through the loop that the input and output temperature of the radiator hardly will be any different once the water temperatur reaches its equilibrium.
Most radiators now are double pass, meaning that water spends twice the amount of time in the radiator as it normally would in a simple single pass rad. Also, if your argument held any weight it stands to reason that you could simply eliminate the rad since there are barely no temp differences.

- End Edit:

I think what they're trying to say is that "equilibrium" occurs when, after a period of use, the temperatures in your loop reach a relative constant at different points (as opposed to being uniform throughout). The only problem with this is that usage levels generally fluctuate at such a pace that this becomes meaningless. If it takes ~1 hour for temps to find this magic "equilibrium" and you change your computer activity just once an hour then this becomes a never ending cycle and your temps never reach equilibrium... invalidating the whole position. Lets say you fold for an hour, play Minesweeper for the next hour, play some heavier games the next hour, etc... temperatures in your loop will fluctuate based on the amount of heat being injected into the loop and fluctuate based on ambient temperatures.

...and just to agree with everyone else.
- Your res should gravity feed your pump.
- You should have a single loop, not two separate loops.
- (if you have more than one rad cooling more than one component) Your rads should be broken up (not daisy-chained one immediately after the other).
- Use as little tubing as possible.
- Never use dyes
Edited by Lucretius - 8/20/10 at 1:50pm
post #9 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucretius View Post
I've never seen anyone in the "equilibrium" camp defend their position, but I think I know what they're trying to say.

I don't think they're trying to say that after X amount of time temperatures reach a "settling point" and are the same throughout the loop. Of course this would be rediculously false because your radiator is still receiving water that is hotter than what it is sending out... your CPU/GPU is receiving colder water than what it is sending out... so water in your loop will never be uniform in temperature.

Edit:


Most radiators now are double pass, meaning that water spends twice the amount of time in the radiator as it normally would in a simple single pass rad. Also, if your argument held any weight it stands to reason that you could simply eliminate the rad since there are barely no temp differences.

- End Edit:

I think what they're trying to say is that "equilibrium" occurs when, after a period of use, the temperatures in your loop reach a relative constant at different points (as opposed to being uniform throughout). The only problem with this is that usage levels generally fluctuate at such a pace that this becomes meaningless. If it takes ~1 hour for temps to find this magic "equilibrium" and you change your computer activity just once an hour then this becomes a never ending cycle and your temps never reach equilibrium... invalidating the whole position. Lets say you fold for an hour, play Minesweeper for the next hour, play some heavier games the next hour, etc... temperatures in your loop will fluctuate based on the amount of heat being injected into the loop and fluctuate based on ambient temperatures.

...and just to agree with everyone else.
- Your res should gravity feed your pump.
- You should have a single loop, not two separate loops.
- (if you have more than one rad cooling more than one component) Your rads should be broken up (not daisy-chained one immediately after the other).
- Use as little tubing as possible.
- Never use dyes
You sir just made a long useless post (very informative, but useless), unfortunately, because 90% of the people traveling by who read your post and who believe that loop order has 0 effect whatsoever already have their minds made up and listen to the logic they create in their minds rather than actual science.

And to top it off. Most of them will finally admit they are wrong if you badger them down with enough physical evidence. And then the "Yeah, well it still doesn't make a big difference" argument comes along. No way to win this uphill battle.
 
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post #10 of 110
I run mine res-pump-rad-cpu-anything else. If you would have to run a lot of extra tubing to get it in that config just run it however, just always keep the res before the pump and it makes it easier to bleed and fill if you put your t-line right before the pump also.

The coolest water is always going to be right after the rad that's why I put the CPU right after it, it's the most temp critical component, as far as OC'ing goes.

Does it make a great difference? No, but I'll take any advantage I can get, especially a free one.

Simple test after you get your loop set up, feel the barb that goes into your rad, then feel the barb on the side that goes out of your rad.
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