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The importance of the "order" of your loop? - Page 8

post #71 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by jluhiex View Post
So

res->pump->rad1->rad2->rad3->cpu->nb/sb->gpu is the same as
res->pump->rad1->cpu->rad2->nb/sb->rad3->gpu

Option 1 will save on tubing and tidiness but from everything I've read people always say have the rad before the block? What would be the best course of action if I'm running a 980x, ek fullblock and 3 x 480gtx's?
No it is not the same but the difference is small. They will provide the same AVERAGE temperature in the whole loop BUT the temperature of the water when it hits the CPU will be slightly lower with option 1.

Hence option 1 would OC slightly better because the CPU gets the coolest water (biggest possible temperature drop over the radiators before it hits the CPU). As the CPU is more sensitive to temperature than the GPUs this is the most efficient in terms of heavy OC. After having cooled the CPU the water will have increased roughly 0.25 Celcius (assuming a 150W heat output from the CPU and a water flow of 2 GPM) so no problems for the GPU afterwards.


So if option 1 gives the neatest layout I think it is a no brainer and imho your best choice. Tidyness AND performce in one - what a dream .
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post #72 of 110
IMO:

Res before Pump = important.

Rest = whatever suits you best!
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post #73 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by !Lester! View Post
IMO:

Res before Pump = important.

Rest = whatever suits you best!
Yes, I had this problem on my rig, I accidentally built it in the reverse order (wasn't sure of direction of flow). If you do not have the res before the pump, you risk getting no flow at all. I have the EK Spin res for my rig, it will not flow if the pump does not suck from one of the outlets.
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post #74 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chunkylad View Post
Yes, I had this problem on my rig, I accidentally built it in the reverse order (wasn't sure of direction of flow). If you do not have the res before the pump, you risk getting no flow at all. I have the EK Spin res for my rig, it will not flow if the pump does not suck from one of the outlets.
pumps don't suck they are not propeller, they are impeller which means they need to be gravity fed, this is why having the res higher then the pump inlet is important.
    
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post #75 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordar View Post
No it is not the same but the difference is small. They will provide the same AVERAGE temperature in the whole loop BUT the temperature of the water when it hits the CPU will be slightly lower with option 1.

Hence option 1 would OC slightly better because the CPU gets the coolest water (biggest possible temperature drop over the radiators before it hits the CPU). As the CPU is more sensitive to temperature than the GPUs this is the most efficient in terms of heavy OC. After having cooled the CPU the water will have increased roughly 0.25 Celcius (assuming a 150W heat output from the CPU and a water flow of 2 GPM) so no problems for the GPU afterwards.


So if option 1 gives the neatest layout I think it is a no brainer and imho your best choice. Tidyness AND performce in one - what a dream .
Thank you for the help!
post #76 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgmoney View Post
pumps don't suck they are not propeller, they are impeller which means they need to be gravity fed, this is why having the res higher then the pump inlet is important.
never speak about the mechanics of a pump again

pumps push matter forward, which creates pull or suction on the matter behind it. they are not always gravity fed either and can work if they are higher than the reservoir

propellers also dont imply suction, impellers do not mean that they need to be gravity fed. grab a dictionary or check out Wikipedia if you dont believe me
    
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post #77 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by OutOfBalanceOX View Post
never speak about the mechanics of a pump again

pumps push matter forward, which creates pull or suction on the matter behind it. they are not always gravity fed either and can work if they are higher than the reservoir

propellers also dont imply suction, impellers do not mean that they need to be gravity fed. grab a dictionary or check out Wikipedia if you dont believe me
sorry to be/sound misinforming.

here I will be more clear as this pertains to computer cooling pumps not just any old pump.

"The spherical shaped rotor/impeller sits on a hard ceramic bearing ball, and is driven by the electronic commutated motor in the stator. The water (or any other pumped media according to the technical datas) enters into the pump through the suction side of the pump housing. The turning rotor/impeller inside the pump increases the pressure and speed of the water, which leaves the pump through the pressure side of the pump housing.

Normal sucking pumps therefore always have to be filled completely with water. Therefore, it is ideal to install the pump always at the lowest level of the whole cooling installation. The system is therefore always completely filled with water before the circulating pump starts operating."

hope that is more clear?

source:
http://www.laing.de/eng/know_how_for/computercooling/

it does suck but most of the power comes from forcing or increasing the pressure out of the pump at 5x the rate it entered.


"From the numerical simulation, the stirring effect by the impeller on the velocity field is quite significant. The maximum velocity, which occurs in the vicinity of the impeller, can be well over five times the average velocity. Since convective heat transfer is largely dependent on liquid velocity, much higher cooling efficiency is expected, especially in the neighborhood of the impeller that could be located on top of the CPU heat source.
The simulation also revealed that with the increase of impeller rpm, the velocity as well the flow rate increase almost linearly. This result is very useful for the design and optimization of the cooling system."

source see pdf link:
http://cds.comsol.com/access/dl/papers/2466/Wang.pdf

or see this link:

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=...FKOeqmf-jOEDow
    
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post #78 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordar View Post
@Ira-k:

Thanks for the links posted. I have seen and read most of them before. However, Bill Adams article is new to me and it was very interesting to read.

Using Martins calculator I have an estimated delta of 6.5 degrees for the loop I am building (assuming a 17% gain because I am using a push-pull setup).

You are right that its easy to WC - just over dimension everything. However, it is good to know why .


/Nordar
BillA did some great testing, he designed the Swifty rad. I have a few more links Ill leave you, not on my main rig now so I don't have many. It's a shame but a lot of the old stuff we are losing as the sites the testing were on are going down.

I'll leave you my cleaning and set-up PDF, it's just some real basic stuff for new guys, your more advanced then that but I have some of my pet blocks pic's in it to.

Hey a 6.8C rad out is really decent, that rig will be capable of some nice OC'ing.

Sure it's good to know why, learning new things is always fun.WC'ing is a great hobby, there always something you can make for it or tweak on.

These are from the RoboTech, he had some really impressive D-5 and DDC pump testing on a site that went down, I wish now I had put it in PDF.

PC Water Coolant Chemistry – Part I

PC Water Coolant Chemistry – Part II

Water-cooling Reservoir Theory and Construction Guide

BillA

Cold Plate Materials and Thickness

The Evolution of Aftermarket Heat Sink
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post #79 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by ira-k View Post
These are from the RoboTech, he had some really impressive D-5 and DDC pump testing on a site that went down, I wish now I had put it in PDF.
Thanks for the links. Will last me through the weekend I think .

If you still know the links or site where the RoboTech D5 and DDC testing was hosted you can try look them up using the Wayback Machine here:

Wayback machine

I personally would be interested if you still have the links.

/Nordar
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post #80 of 110
Hey Thanks, I forgot all about the wayback and I used to use that quite a bit.

It's been down a couple of years now but I'll try to find it, I'd love to put them into PDF just to have.

The one on the 10W DDC he also did the inlet Mod, at that time "04-"05 somewhere around then there were no tops for the DDC. So he drilled out a hole for a 1/2" barb in the top of the pump and tested it with a 3/8" pressure and a 1/2" return, it bumped up flow fairly well at the cost of a bit of head.

But that's a really cool one, to see the first Mod of the DDC pump top by the tester....It wasn't long after that Alpha-Cool came out with a plexi one and about the same time Radiical in Australia came out with a Delrin top, I bought a Radiical because I like POM better.
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