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The importance of the "order" of your loop? - Page 9

post #81 of 110
@ the Rad before or after the block argument, if it's before the block, wouldn't that
1: vastly lower the flowrate and/or pressure to the block and
2: mean all the hot water from the CPU flows back to the res and then to the pump? Wouldn't hot water lower the lifespan of the pump?

Doesn't seem worth it for 1 degree to me.
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post #82 of 110
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by T3h_Ch33z_Muncha View Post
@ the Rad before or after the block argument, if it's before the block, wouldn't that
1: vastly lower the flowrate and/or pressure to the block and
2: mean all the hot water from the CPU flows back to the res and then to the pump? Wouldn't hot water lower the lifespan of the pump?

Doesn't seem worth it for 1 degree to me.
based on everything I'm reading/seeing...the water isn't going to be hotter/colder anywhere, no matter the order (save for less then 1C at most). Supposedly the same for flowrate.
post #83 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by T3h_Ch33z_Muncha View Post
@ the Rad before or after the block argument, if it's before the block, wouldn't that
1: vastly lower the flowrate and/or pressure to the block and
2: mean all the hot water from the CPU flows back to the res and then to the pump? Wouldn't hot water lower the lifespan of the pump?

Doesn't seem worth it for 1 degree to me.

To 1:

Since it is a closed loop flowrate is constant everywhere in the loop. If 2 gallons per minute passes at a certain point 2 gallons per minute will pass at every point in the loop. Otherwise water will be lost or added somewhere.

It will not influence the pressure to the block either. Unless you have kinks the pressure in the tubing is the same everywhere (a bit simplified because it will change very very little at bends). This is because the flow rate is the same everywhere and because the tubing has constant diameter (read restriction).

To 2:
Not really. My D5 pump is specced up to 60 C. If you run a loop with lower than 10C delta between water temp and ambient air temp there is plenty of room even in hot locations of the world. The difference in water temperature between any two points in the loop is very low (less than 1 degree when cooling 500W with a 2 GPM flow no matter the loop order).
Edited by Nordar - 8/26/10 at 12:24am
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post #84 of 110
Think of it as a kid peeing in a pool.
He's adding "heat" to the loop (pool)
No matter where the kid is in the pool he is still adding the same ammount of heat.
The only way the temperature would make a difference is if there were more kids in the pool (more components) or if you took all the pee pants kids out of the pool all together. Also you could make the pool larger or smaller (adding or removing rads) and that would only speed up or slow down how long it takes the pee to heat up the pool.

Thats my simplistic version of the whole deal lol.
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post #85 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost-boi View Post
Think of it as a kid peeing in a pool.
He's adding "heat" to the loop (pool)
No matter where the kid is in the pool he is still adding the same ammount of heat.
The only way the temperature would make a difference is if there were more kids in the pool (more components) or if you took all the pee pants kids out of the pool all together. Also you could make the pool larger or smaller (adding or removing rads) and that would only speed up or slow down how long it takes the pee to heat up the pool.

Thats my simplistic version of the whole deal lol.
Except there are things that need to be cooled in that loop. Heat sensitive things, and being able to remove the heat he dumped INTO the pool BEFORE it reaches something trying to be cooled will lead to slightly better cooling.

Looking at average water temps across a loop equalizing is pointless. The key to watercooling is getting the water at it's coldest state right before it enters a block.
 
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post #86 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordar View Post
To 1:

Since it is a closed loop flowrate is constant everywhere in the loop. If 2 gallons per minute passes at a certain point 2 gallons per minute will pass at every point in the loop. Otherwise water will be lost or added somewhere.

It will not influence the pressure to the block either. Unless you have kinks the pressure in the tubing is the same everywhere (a bit simplified because it will change very very little at bends). This is because the flow rate is the same everywhere and because the tubing has constant diameter (read restriction).
There you go. Flow is the same, PSI is the same, as long as you don't add anything to it that will raise or lower viscosity once it's in the loop.

A pump doesn't create pressure, it creates flow.

The PSI doesn't change.

The only thing that is consumed in a loop is the head. It's the highest at the pump discharge side and return to 0 on the suction side inlet. The head is used over the course of the loop.

PSI can be converted to head measurement, since the PSI reading would be the back pressure on the loop.

That's one reason I've always run a PSI guage right after the pumps discharge. That and it's a real good indicator of loop health, if the system starts getting plugged up PSI goes up. Plus when I add anti-freeze I use a guage to know my 10%. Then it shows the viscosity go down as I add other ingredients like glycerine, Dawn or methyl alcohol.

Like with this old rig I was right at 5PSI, after converting I can see I still have 6 or 7 feet of head left to play around with in the loop. It was the old orange impeller 18W DDC, I think they were right at 18' of head.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrimpykins View Post
Looking at average water temps across a loop equalizing is pointless. The key to watercooling is getting the water at it's coldest state right before it enters a block.
That's the way I look at it, especially when it's free and easy, why not.



Edited by ira-k - 8/26/10 at 10:38pm
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post #87 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrimpykins View Post
Except there are things that need to be cooled in that loop. Heat sensitive things, and being able to remove the heat he dumped INTO the pool BEFORE it reaches something trying to be cooled will lead to slightly better cooling.

Looking at average water temps across a loop equalizing is pointless. The key to watercooling is getting the water at it's coldest state right before it enters a block.
But then your splitting hairs... It might be 1-2c cooler if that.
In all honesty its not worth trying to place a rad before a component unless it would result in the shortest/cleanest paths.
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post #88 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost-boi View Post
But then your splitting hairs... It might be 1-2c cooler if that.
In all honesty its not worth trying to place a rad before a component unless it would result in the shortest/cleanest paths.
having built many water cooling systems in many different cases usually the rad before block makes a cleaner build, less tubbing.

personally i like the rad before the blocks it has always worked best for me.
    
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post #89 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by ira-k View Post
That's one reason I've always run a PSI guage right after the pumps discharge. That and it's a real good indicator of loop health, if the system starts getting plugged up PSI goes up.
If the presure is the same everywhere in the tubing why is it important to measure it right after the pump?

I will install a flowmeter in my build and hook it up to the auto shut off function of my fan controller so that if the flow goes too low it will turn the computer off immediately. Also I will use it for maintenance monitoring.


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post #90 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgmoney View Post
having built many water cooling systems in many different cases usually the rad before block makes a cleaner build, less tubbing.

personally i like the rad before the blocks it has always worked best for me.
Depends on the case and what your cooling and all.
In my case I have a 240 before my components and a 360 after. Its just the cleanest/shortest runs I could make.
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