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[Official] Guild Wars 2 Discussion, Video & Screenshot Thread - Page 739

post #7381 of 10385
Quote:
Originally Posted by CallsignVega View Post

You mean something along the lines of: fix the game you worthless crappy programmers that couldn't program your way out of a wet paper bag? Ok, it wasn't that confrontational but it did have some zeal. biggrin.gif

Not to engage in a flame-war with fan-boys here, but... ^THIS! smile.gif

I'll be the first to admit that a game isn't what I could ever dream of calling either 'useful' or 'necessary' - however, it's what they do for a living. I also write software for a living (albeit software that no one outside of a few insurance adjusters and state employees will ever use) and I'm going to have to agree with this statement completely. If I or my team ever released software that had as many issues in basic functional mechanics as I've seen in GW2... you can bet that either they would be looking for jobs or I would be. When I was independent and owned my own shop - something that had significant functional issues would have never been released to the end user to begin with (or in the few cases where a client kept saying they'd rather have it NOW rather than DONE WELL, I voluntarily delivered it at no cost until the problems were fixed).

There are significant issues with this game that were definitely NOT broken this badly when they released GW1, and the GW1 beta was an absolute disaster as far as playability. I definitely agree that they will probably have things worked out in a year or so at their current pace... but after 5 years it shouldn't be this rough! I would be much, much more understanding if this was a release from an indie developer or if it was the first release (or at least the first of it's kind) for an bigger commercial shop... but they've developed multiple games prior to this. I realize they are trying to do some things differently, but when every single event on a particular map is stuck... I have to assume that they've spent 95% of their time on modeling, textures, and map design (which are all spectacular and beautiful) and 5% on actual mechanics and triggers.

As a programmer there is always a struggle between producing something that's 'right' and something that 'works' - by this time they should be working on something that is the latter... rather than letting all their players struggle through crap while they strive for the former. For example: set expiration timers for events... if the event hasn't succeeded in X minutes... just reset everything. Yes it will cause a loss of 'immersion' for any players who happen by it right as everything disappears and starts over... but that's better than 10-15 people running all over the place looking for an invisible boss that you can't hit... but can still kill you. Or fixing the kiting code to not allow invulnerability to trigger more than once per minute on monsters.

You guys can argue the bigger picture about whether or not the overall game is good or not and I'm totally cool with that - but when we're talking about what should be 2-3 line fixes to the game code (unless they wrote it to be spaghetti from the get-go... in which case the game is doomed already) I understand the frustration of people like CallsignVega. Would you be OK with buying a new car that didn't have working A/C or was missing a CD player you paid for?? After all... you can still DRIVE IT right? Would you be OK with paying to watch a movie that had a third of the CG effects rendered in wireframe - you still get the general idea right? Or a pair of jeans that had holes in the pockets? I could go on but you get the point.

The problem is that as consumers we've swallowed this line of crap for long enough that now companies understand that it's fine to release a product or service that's less than complete - people will still pay full price and then you can fix it after you've already started making money off of it. Thirty years ago this would have sent a company to bankruptcy, but today it's just business as usual. Until the ones with the money (us) speak up... it will only get worse.
post #7382 of 10385
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiGiCiDAL View Post

Not to engage in a flame-war with fan-boys here, but... ^THIS! smile.gif
I'll be the first to admit that a game isn't what I could ever dream of calling either 'useful' or 'necessary' - however, it's what they do for a living. I also write software for a living (albeit software that no one outside of a few insurance adjusters and state employees will ever use) and I'm going to have to agree with this statement completely. If I or my team ever released software that had as many issues in basic functional mechanics as I've seen in GW2... you can bet that either they would be looking for jobs or I would be. When I was independent and owned my own shop - something that had significant functional issues would have never been released to the end user to begin with (or in the few cases where a client kept saying they'd rather have it NOW rather than DONE WELL, I voluntarily delivered it at no cost until the problems were fixed).
There are significant issues with this game that were definitely NOT broken this badly when they released GW1, and the GW1 beta was an absolute disaster as far as playability. I definitely agree that they will probably have things worked out in a year or so at their current pace... but after 5 years it shouldn't be this rough! I would be much, much more understanding if this was a release from an indie developer or if it was the first release (or at least the first of it's kind) for an bigger commercial shop... but they've developed multiple games prior to this. I realize they are trying to do some things differently, but when every single event on a particular map is stuck... I have to assume that they've spent 95% of their time on modeling, textures, and map design (which are all spectacular and beautiful) and 5% on actual mechanics and triggers.
As a programmer there is always a struggle between producing something that's 'right' and something that 'works' - by this time they should be working on something that is the latter... rather than letting all their players struggle through crap while they strive for the former. For example: set expiration timers for events... if the event hasn't succeeded in X minutes... just reset everything. Yes it will cause a loss of 'immersion' for any players who happen by it right as everything disappears and starts over... but that's better than 10-15 people running all over the place looking for an invisible boss that you can't hit... but can still kill you. Or fixing the kiting code to not allow invulnerability to trigger more than once per minute on monsters.
You guys can argue the bigger picture about whether or not the overall game is good or not and I'm totally cool with that - but when we're talking about what should be 2-3 line fixes to the game code (unless they wrote it to be spaghetti from the get-go... in which case the game is doomed already) I understand the frustration of people like CallsignVega. Would you be OK with buying a new car that didn't have working A/C or was missing a CD player you paid for?? After all... you can still DRIVE IT right? Would you be OK with paying to watch a movie that had a third of the CG effects rendered in wireframe - you still get the general idea right? Or a pair of jeans that had holes in the pockets? I could go on but you get the point.
The problem is that as consumers we've swallowed this line of crap for long enough that now companies understand that it's fine to release a product or service that's less than complete - people will still pay full price and then you can fix it after you've already started making money off of it. Thirty years ago this would have sent a company to bankruptcy, but today it's just business as usual. Until the ones with the money (us) speak up... it will only get worse.

If you're such an expert, write the 2-3 lines of code and send it to the devs. For someone who develops software you seem to have forgotten about one key thing, bug free software is just software that hasnt been tested enough. People have already mentioned about the number of fixes they have already implemented, every fix they apply will inevitably result in bugs elsewhere. Its never a case of "2-3 lines of code", especially in a game with the size and complexity of GW2.

If you arent happy, dont play the game. You've already got a whole month out of your money which is more then you can say for most games these days.
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post #7383 of 10385
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach 5 View Post

If you're such an expert, write the 2-3 lines of code and send it to the devs. For someone who develops software you seem to have forgotten about one key thing, bug free software is just software that hasnt been tested enough. People have already mentioned about the number of fixes they have already implemented, every fix they apply will inevitably result in bugs elsewhere. Its never a case of "2-3 lines of code", especially in a game with the size and complexity of GW2.
If you arent happy, dont play the game. You've already got a whole month out of your money which is more then you can say for most games these days.

OK, a few things here... first of all - I'm not playing the game anymore... however, as I said there are parts of the game that are amazing (mostly in the visual impact) but other than that it's something pretty that is nearly impossible to play in certain areas. I've decided that I will only play it for the 4-5 hours after an update... because then all of the broken events will be reset. And as far as me being an expert that could write their code for them... that's the whole point - I'm certainly not as much of an expert as their programmers are (I hope) and yet here in pseudo code is what you suggest:

if (thisevent.timer > thisevent.maxlimit) {
doEventResetAll(thisevent);
}

However, if you would prefer since you definitely know more about how they've written their codebase than I do... here's a solution that would solve a great number of the problems many people are facing without requiring a single line of code: reset the entire game as you do with every update release every day or two until you have a chance to fix the problems. After updates there are usually several hours to most of a day when events operate normally (speaking PvE here as I haven't bothered to play sPvP or WvWvW at all yet due to the problems faced in PvE alone) - so assuming that they've written a non-modular, non-cascading, and largely non-structured codebase... which would explain a great deal... but would also put them several levels below any commercial game developer - it would still work with no coding required.

As to the other comment in your response - not if it's written properly to begin with. Based on this statement I assume that you are not a programmer - or you've only had to deal with maintaining someone's spaghetti coded nightmares. I could assume that you are a student that actually doesn't have any professional experience at all - but that would be as presumptuous of you as your statement was of me. wink.gif

If an application is written with an established methodology, framework, and plan - along with proper function encapsulation - there should never be a fix to one thing that breaks another thing... or it cannot be called a fix in the first place.
post #7384 of 10385
Quote:
Originally Posted by CallsignVega View Post

You mean something along the lines of: fix the game you worthless crappy programmers that couldn't program your way out of a wet paper bag? Ok, it wasn't that confrontational but it did have some zeal. biggrin.gif

Yes, that was asking for a ban. I'm surprised your game account isn't banned, to be honest headscratch.gif

@DiGiCiDAL:

You shall contact NCsoft to help them fix their game. They clearly haven't thought about what you exposed... thumb.gif


Oh internet rolleyes.gif
Edited by Artikbot - 10/8/12 at 3:04am
   
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post #7385 of 10385
I don't think it is at all unreasonable to expect a Guild Wars game to have PvP that isn't completely broken. This isn't wanting a "perfect game", this is wanting one of the core aspects of the game to be functional.
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post #7386 of 10385
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artikbot View Post

Yes, that was asking for a ban. I'm surprised your game account isn't banned, to be honest headscratch.gif
@DiGiCiDAL:
You shall contact NCsoft to help them fix their game. They clearly haven't thought about what you exposed... thumb.gif
Oh internet rolleyes.gif

Ignoring the vitriol - they have obviously not only thought of it - but they've implemented it already in every event that already has a timer - for example any that are "stop the invading horde before the timer runs out" and coincidentally - those WORK PERFECTLY. Considering the rest, I certainly agree that having anything negative to say about anything/anyone that you don't agree with is a horrible thing and always deserving of a ban...

Good thing you've never been guilty of that, or you might come off as being hypocritical.

Oh internet rolleyes.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fortunex View Post

I don't think it is at all unreasonable to expect a Guild Wars game to have PvP that isn't completely broken. This isn't wanting a "perfect game", this is wanting one of the core aspects of the game to be functional.

^This!
Edited by DiGiCiDAL - 10/8/12 at 4:00am
post #7387 of 10385
The problem is people think it's so easy and quick to fix "simple" things. The fact is they released a patch which messed up the PvP BY ACCIDENT and now they have to fix it. I can't believe how many people are spoiled brats who want everything instantly. :|

I wish those who stopped playing GW2 cause they believe it is a "broken" game should stop complaining since they've already stopped playing. Sell your account and be happy with the cash you got back. And learn to have some patience, it goes a long way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artikbot View Post

@DiGiCiDAL:
You shall contact NCsoft to help them fix their game. They clearly haven't thought about what you exposed... thumb.gif
Oh internet rolleyes.gif

+1. Please by all means, if you think you can provide them with the 1-3 lines of code to fix the problem, kindly do so instead of flaming this thread. Thanks!
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post #7388 of 10385
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiGiCiDAL View Post

Ignoring the vitriol - they have obviously not only thought of it - but they've implemented it already in every event that already has a timer - for example any that are "stop the invading horde before the timer runs out" and coincidentally - those WORK PERFECTLY.

It's much easier to make an event reset itself on a timer than to make it reset upon triggering a series of events, as you already said.

It's very hard to predict if an autonomous NPC will trigger those events without interfering with the transcourse (is that even a word? tongue.gif) of the event. That being said, and considering the amount of events based on that that are already working, it's safe to assume that Anet will fix the other ones in a 'not too long' time (see: Valve Time)

I agree that the level 50+ Charr zones used to be unplayable. They have been fixed for the most part iirc? I've been there today and seemed perfectly playable. I also agree that Orr had way too many bugged skillpoints. But I've got all of Orr completed now, so I assume they've also been fixed.


Anet is still doing one hell of a job compared to other companies, despite the game having its flaws. But I've grown to be a bit non-exigent, especially after having played F2P games for the most part of the past five years; so I might be biased.

Quote:

Considering the rest, I certainly agree that having anything negative to say about anything/anyone that you don't agree with is a horrible thing and always deserving of a ban...


I've complained countless times on game forums. But if you keep it civil and use proper wording, you even get feedback from the admins/devs. The way Vega said it... I'd slap a ban on his face and never look back. It was rude, disrespectful, un-constructive, cocky, and childish. The exact way a 12yo Blizzkid would phrase it.

Quote:
^This!

Agree. But sPvP is fine for the most part, in my humble opinion. WvW on the other hand... not so much.

There's some nice unbalancing going on, that for example completely ruins the experience for my server (Far Shiverpeaks). We've been matched against Vizunah Square for a whole month. And we cannot win them because Canadians play on it, so we've got french players during the day (which we kind of steamroll) and while our server sleeps, Canadians claim THE WHOLE DAMNED MAP because neither we are playing (of course, we're all asleep in mainland Europe and UK), and because Riverside (DE) is the other opposing force, which is already sleeping.

And we, of course, cannot claim it back during the day because they have ALL their outposts/towers/garrisons fortified to death and armed with any kinds of assault artillery they've built during the night while EU is asleep.

I'm aware this happens also on other servers being confronted with multi-timezone players.
   
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post #7389 of 10385
I'm actually finding PvP very enjoyable. Like I said I'm not the PvP type of guy but I feel kyself getting hooked..Mainly cause I win and lead the scoreboard at times (surprising since I suck at other games PvP). Either ranger class is OP or for the first time in my life I don't suck at PvP lol. Love the "everyone is equal" style where everyone has the same gear and level..Have yet to try WvW,think my internet might not be able to handle it lol
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post #7390 of 10385
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeastRider View Post

The problem is people think it's so easy and quick to fix "simple" things. The fact is they released a patch which messed up the PvP BY ACCIDENT and now they have to fix it. I can't believe how many people are spoiled brats who want everything instantly. :|
I wish those who stopped playing GW2 cause they believe it is a "broken" game should stop complaining since they've already stopped playing. Sell your account and be happy with the cash you got back. And learn to have some patience, it goes a long way.
+1. Please by all means, if you think you can provide them with the 1-3 lines of code to fix the problem, kindly do so instead of flaming this thread. Thanks!

Since when is simply wanting something to function at a basic level and addressing those issues or discussing them with others who are having the same issues 'flaming'. You should definitely shy away from any threads on this site that have anything to do with tubing plasticizer, EK Nickel Plating, aftermarket pump tops, etc... or should all of those people just shrugged and sold their problem products for a loss of money to someone uninformed soul and be done with it.

This in addition to the fact although everyone seems to think the issue is money - that has nothing to do with it. The cost of GW2 is so little it didn't even register - I just spent 4X as much on fittings... The issue is that I've played GW1 for over 6 years, and followed the development of GW2 for years as well (as much as was possible that is - naturally most of it was during the past 18 months). I was in the beta, I prepaid, and even paid for gems on the first day (OK.. actually that wasn't working then either... but the first day it was possible to pay for them) so I could expand my bank slots and to send them a little extra just because.

Also I never said that all the problems with the game could be fixed with a few lines of code - simply that one of the biggest PvE issues I have (bascially all Char areas lvl 40+) could be easily fixed with a simple timer-reset function that is already in place in events that included a timer by default. The problems with PvP and WvWvW are numerous and complex - and I would not even begin to think that they could be fixed quickly or easily.

I guess my problem was in reading the title of this thread as a DISCUSSION - where perhaps it should simply read "[Official] Guild Wars 2 PRAISE, Video & Screenshot Thread" because that would then make more sense as far as the defensive postures of some of it's participants. Do you see hundreds of posts from me complaining about anything? Is asking for them to take even the most basic responses to user issues that inconceivable? My frustration (as well as that of some others you think are "flaming") comes from a love of the first game and a hopeful attitude toward this one as well. I'm perfectly fine not playing for a few months and then checking back again to see if there's any progress - but for the most part... there hasn't been any during the first month (just fixes to things they broke during the first week mostly - that were working much better during the betas).

I just wonder, if I don't like the game and should just uninstall it or sell it for a loss - shouldn't you just ignore my posts if you don't like what they're saying. If I am just flaming, a moderator will ban me or remove my posts... on the other hand if this is a discussion... then isn't it possible for sensible, intelligent people to discuss more than simple flattery and blind acceptance? Guess not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artikbot View Post

It's much easier to make an event reset itself on a timer than to make it reset upon triggering a series of events, as you already said.
It's very hard to predict if an autonomous NPC will trigger those events without interfering with the transcourse (is that even a word? tongue.gif) of the event. That being said, and considering the amount of events based on that that are already working, it's safe to assume that Anet will fix the other ones in a 'not too long' time (see: Valve Time)
I agree that the level 50+ Charr zones used to be unplayable. They have been fixed for the most part iirc? I've been there today and seemed perfectly playable. I also agree that Orr had way too many bugged skillpoints. But I've got all of Orr completed now, so I assume they've also been fixed.
Anet is still doing one hell of a job compared to other companies, despite the game having its flaws. But I've grown to be a bit non-exigent, especially after having played F2P games for the most part of the past five years; so I might be biased.
I've complained countless times on game forums. But if you keep it civil and use proper wording, you even get feedback from the admins/devs. The way Vega said it... I'd slap a ban on his face and never look back. It was rude, disrespectful, un-constructive, cocky, and childish. The exact way a 12yo Blizzkid would phrase it.

I agree if that was how his post was worded, but I gave him the benefit of the doubt that he actually posted a more constructive post on their site (since he stated that he did). As an aside I don't think he was actually banned or even suspended by them... I think they are now having issues with their forum security (part of the upgrades to hopefully reduce the number of hacked accounts). I also agree that they are doing a fine job in comparison to F2P developers - but that's not really a fair comparison now is it?

Perhaps I gave him too much credit (sure wish anyone had made that mistake on my account) but I assumed the angry post here was just to vent his frustration... something that I could have related to a few days ago when I attempted to work through Straits of Devastation, Fireheart Rise, and Frostgorge Sound - only to have every single event, numerous hearts, and two skill points still be bugged after a month... who knows, maybe by December I can start playing for 100% in earnest. And to answer your question... no, none of those areas you mentioned have been fixed... unless they were with the very latest patch (today's update).
Edited by DiGiCiDAL - 10/8/12 at 7:17am
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