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[Official] Guild Wars 2 Discussion, Video & Screenshot Thread - Page 742

post #7411 of 10385
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeastRider View Post

Is it okay for me to post screenies even if I'm just level 42? biggrin.gif Lovin the graphics but don't wanna post my noobie stuff lol. Also, where do the screen shots go?

Just because people have gone on before you, doesn't mean you might not have something unique that people haven't seen... so I say post away!
Quote:
Originally Posted by grishkathefool View Post

I am thinking Microsoft here, maybe ME, 2000, or VISTA?
...
CallSignVega, please don't give up. It'd be a shame to let all that hardware of yours not be used for GW. DiGiCiDe, please consider coming back to the game in a while. All in all, I have found the content to be a BLAST. Most fun I've had in an MMO ever.
One night three of us decided to bumrush our way up the hill through the Centaur fortress to the Skill Challenge at the top. Mob density was more than I had seen elsewhere. It was impossible not to ag less than 4 or 5 horsies. Once or twice I had to stop and help revive the characters with me. Once I almost went down too. When we finally reached the top I felt like I had achieved something, that I had had all my skills tested, usage timing, dodge timing, heal timing, being aware of my surroundings. I was on the edge of my chair, gripping my mouse like it was going to fly out of my hand, and grinning like a fool.
I found myself also wondering if the game I had been waiting for all these years was letting me down. I thought about quitting angry. But I stuck it out. I think part of it is that I game with my friends from previous MMOs and GW1; and, we are laid back and sometimes just have fun hanging out and trying out different dye combinations. Part of it too is that I know that Anet is constantly working to make adjustments. Part of it is that no other MMO has ever given me this much fun.

Oh I won't be giving up on it - despite the suggestions of several posting in this thread. biggrin.gif I am going to be finishing up my HOM to 50 in GW1 in the meantime while I wait however probably.

The ME,2K,Vista comment made me laugh... I totally blame all of this on Microsoft actually. They were the first major software company to release a product they knew full well was not ready for mainstream consumption... although I'd submit that actually NT 3.1 was the first such release (although since they stole most of it from OS/2 I guess IBM shares the blame for that). They heralded in the generation of consumer-beta-testing-for-profit and now every company does the same thing for the most part.

What I think people need to understand (at least the "just quit playing and shut up" crowd) is that the very reason that some of us are frustrated, as well as the reason we would bother writing a post about that frustration - is BECAUSE we love the game! If WoW's KungFu Panda rip-off has a crap-load of problems or for that matter works flawlessly... I couldn't care less. I wouldn't have to just quit playing altogether... because I have no desire to play in the first place.

The bottom line is that I think ANet has done a great job in the past (for the most part) and I am also confident that are working hard right now to fix many of the problems currently being faced in GW2. The part that I am frustrated with (and I believe many others share this view) is that some of the problems they are currently facing should have been obvious around the point in time they were showing the game off at GDC in 2010... and certainly shouldn't have been so" caught with their pants down" at the time of release. I'm done offering technical examples - but suffice it to say that it has been possible to load test web pages, switches, servers, render-loads, etc... WITHOUT ANY PLAYERS AT ALL for years. They obviously were rushed - we all know that - and I'm sure they will get around to fixing everything they assured many of us on their forums, in press releases, and in conference presentations would be done at the time of release.

I'm apparently in the minority as far as this is concerned... but I would have preferred that they had just pushed release back all the way to December and done more testing of loads, performance scaling, attack vectors for bots and hacking, etc. What's done is done, and I understand their desire to find out if their game was going to be a big success or just a minor one before committing more resources to it... but I also think they were somewhat negligent in simply applying the lessons they should have learned during the GW1 years.

I agree that when everything works - the game is incredibly immersive, compelling, and exciting. It's like a movie with really good special effects and a decent script - but horrible directing and editing. Just when you've completely suspended disbelief, and you're actually living in an ancient fantasy world... you see a jet in the sky! A seemingly simple fix existed (editing) - but for some reason it was missed... and now you're just watching a plain old movie again.
post #7412 of 10385
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiGiCiDAL View Post

The bottom line is that I think ANet has done a great job in the past (for the most part) and I am also confident that are working hard right now to fix many of the problems currently being faced in GW2. The part that I am frustrated with (and I believe many others share this view) is that some of the problems they are currently facing should have been obvious around the point in time they were showing the game off at GDC in 2010... and certainly shouldn't have been so" caught with their pants down" at the time of release. I'm done offering technical examples - but suffice it to say that it has been possible to load test web pages, switches, servers, render-loads, etc... WITHOUT ANY PLAYERS AT ALL for years. They obviously were rushed - we all know that - and I'm sure they will get around to fixing everything they assured many of us on their forums, in press releases, and in conference presentations would be done at the time of release.

This is incorrect.

Clearly the bottom line is that, they hadn't predicted the response the game garnered. They were understaffed, CS wasn't up to par -- Nobody anticipated the game would sell over 2.5m copies within the first month.

However, the vast majority of the problems with event mechanics were because people were exploiting them.

You can argue that, they should have been more on the ball but, this goes with the bottom line, they didn't expect the level of exploiting and weren't equipped to handle it.

I'm not going to state my involvement in the project, just yet but, having seen it, having 2 level 80s and having been a part of this game since day 1 of closed beta, I will attest that, these issues didn't exist in 2010, they didn't exist at E3, they didn't exist because the hacker had yet to be implemented in the game.

I have 2 level 80's in full exotics, a Warrior and a Elementalist...Ironically, the only issues I actually experienced were on the Warrior...I had 0 issues what-so-ever 1-80 on the Elementalist.

The only issues I experienced (prior to my involvement) were because players had "exploited/hacked" the event. Which, then everyone on the server in that area just transferred somewhere else and took it down.

The back end, because of it's base is also extraordinarily different...They'll release in time what it is but, the way GW2 is designed, especially the zone-zone involvement is dramatically different than anything currently on the market...Thus, no fix in this game is just 1 line of code...Oh no, it's hundreds...

I'm not calling anyone out or attempting to offend, anyone...Nor am I offended at all but, there's a tremendous amount that many of you seem to believe are simple fixes when the reality is, they're extremely complicated...And they're doing their best.

I'm not trying to challenge your "right" to be disappointed or not...I'm challenging the "facts" you all claim to know considering many of these details, are so off base, it's incredible.

I have no issues with many of you that claim your disappointed, that's fine but, don't claim that something is an easy fix when, in fact, it's incredibly difficult...It's unfair to them and everyone involved in the project.
Edited by Masked - 10/9/12 at 6:26am
post #7413 of 10385
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked View Post

This is incorrect.
Clearly the bottom line is that, they hadn't predicted the response the game garnered. They were understaffed, CS wasn't up to par -- Nobody anticipated the game would sell over 2.5m copies within the first month.
However, the vast majority of the problems with event mechanics were because people were exploiting them.
You can argue that, they should have been more on the ball but, this goes with the bottom line, they didn't expect the level of exploiting and weren't equipped to handle it.

Your response actually just decreased my optimism significantly. I have no reason to doubt your level of experience with the back-end framework of the gamecode - but if each instance and each event requires hundreds of lines of code to simply reset 'stuck' events due to something like bugged champion/escort target pathing (falls through lava and disappears) for example - then I think it could be a very long time before the current content gets sorted. I can only image there would be hundreds of thousands of lines of code required for truly comprehensive feature changes if this is true.

As far as the "hacker had yet to be implemented in the game" - that's what I'm speaking to exactly. I'm well aware that they didn't have the exact nature of the exploits used - they didn't even have all that much of the game written in 2010 (beyond proof of concept stuff) - I'm simply saying that based on the experience they presumably accrued during the previous 5-6 years of GW1... I would have thought they could have guessed there would be a high level of attack. Hell, I can say with confidence that every game that has any possibility of selling something electronic for actual currency in any form will be literally swamped with Chinese hacker farms from day one.

Things are getting better it seems, and I'm happy to wait - but nothing you say will change the fact that a pretty big project management ball was dropped on this game if nothing else... and maybe the problem is that I'm playing a warrior toon ATM... but that seems like a strange factor considering most of the things I've stated being frustrated with affected everyone on the server... not just a single class of toon.
post #7414 of 10385
In WvWvW last night, the keep I was defending was under heavy attack. I saw someone jump from the ramparts (was at full health) and they instantly died. I didn't see anything around them and wondered what had just happened. I threw a piece of chicken into that shadowy area below and it instantly turned to bone. When I used my sonic grenade, I was able to detect hundreds of life forms even though I couldn't see them. I realized it was the Vashta Nerada! It all made sense. The only thing we could do was run. (Semi true story)

As annoying as the invisible army is, I still love WvW.
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post #7415 of 10385
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myrtl View Post

In WvWvW last night, the keep I was defending was under heavy attack. I saw someone jump from the ramparts (was at full health) and they instantly died. I didn't see anything around them and wondered what had just happened. I threw a piece of chicken into that shadowy area below and it instantly turned to bone. When I used my sonic grenade, I was able to detect hundreds of life forms even though I couldn't see them. I realized it was the Vashta Nerada! It all made sense. The only thing we could do was run. (Semi true story)
As annoying as the invisible army is, I still love WvW.

BWAHAHAHAHA!
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post #7416 of 10385
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiGiCiDAL View Post

Your response actually just decreased my optimism significantly. I have no reason to doubt your level of experience with the back-end framework of the gamecode - but if each instance and each event requires hundreds of lines of code to simply reset 'stuck' events due to something like bugged champion/escort target pathing (falls through lava and disappears) for example - then I think it could be a very long time before the current content gets sorted. I can only image there would be hundreds of thousands of lines of code required for truly comprehensive feature changes if this is true.
As far as the "hacker had yet to be implemented in the game" - that's what I'm speaking to exactly. I'm well aware that they didn't have the exact nature of the exploits used - they didn't even have all that much of the game written in 2010 (beyond proof of concept stuff) - I'm simply saying that based on the experience they presumably accrued during the previous 5-6 years of GW1... I would have thought they could have guessed there would be a high level of attack. Hell, I can say with confidence that every game that has any possibility of selling something electronic for actual currency in any form will be literally swamped with Chinese hacker farms from day one.
Things are getting better it seems, and I'm happy to wait - but nothing you say will change the fact that a pretty big project management ball was dropped on this game if nothing else... and maybe the problem is that I'm playing a warrior toon ATM... but that seems like a strange factor considering most of the things I've stated being frustrated with affected everyone on the server... not just a single class of toon.

It shouldn't...Saying they weren't ready doesn't mean they aren't now.

They've essentially doubled their staff, hired contractors and expanded to meet the demand of the public.

If you're not optimistic about a company that doubled their staff to accommodate for the public, then I clearly don't understand the meaning of optimism.

It is hundreds of lines of code to fix pathing issues because of how advanced the system is...This isn't Everquest or WoW, where 10 years later the same bugs exist...They make a valid, real, attempt to fix every single bug that you, the community, find but, that still takes a tremendous amount of time.

GW1 and GW2 don't have the same back-end...In fact, when they decided to go with a new base, most of the coding had to be thrown out and re-created...I actually can't come up with an analogy that would properly explain how much more advanced GW2 is than GW1...

Things will get better...They wouldn't have doubled their staff if they didn't want things to get better...And I admit they dropped the ball, have several times.

There are still glitches in attacks...Invisible characters are the cause of the client (Which they're trying to fix, regardless)...Hackers still purposefully crash events and effect pathing (Can google those two)...

The major issue is the human element...And that does effect your entire server. For the most part, they're addressing this. Banning the offenders and stating their position.

I would also categorize this as the smoothest MMO launch I've yet participated in...Again, I dare you to find another game company, in the history of this industry, that stopped sales for a week, to address server populations and their staffing...Fact is, you won't find one...That to me, garners more optimism than the industry does, as a whole.
post #7417 of 10385
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked View Post

If you're not optimistic about a company that doubled their staff to accommodate for the public, then I clearly don't understand the meaning of optimism.
It is hundreds of lines of code to fix pathing issues because of how advanced the system is...This isn't Everquest or WoW, where 10 years later the same bugs exist...They make a valid, real, attempt to fix every single bug that you, the community, find but, that still takes a tremendous amount of time.

I don't know if it's a matter of poor communication on my part or poor comprehension on yours - at no point in time have your responses addressed the only problem-solution I commented on. I'm very optimistic in regards to ANet eventually getting things sorted (as stated), I also fully comprehend the difficulties in coding AI in regards to pathing/collision logic in a 3D environment (just because I don't write games now doesn't mean I haven't ever).

I would certainly never state that complex user interactions with a dynamic, scalable event (scripted or reactive) could be solved simply or quickly. All I ever said was that a temporary solution to a single, specific problem shouldn't be any harder than applying an already existent set of code (timed expiration and reset) to problematic events so that a full reset was not required. That was all I ever stated should be simple.

If adding a timer does indeed take "hundreds of lines of code" then that is the reason I think they would have needed to triple or quadruple their staff to even have a prayer of fixing all the much, much more complex issues like those in sPvP or WvWvW.

I think we could go around in circles endlessly and not actually achieve communication. There's obviously a level of emotional reaction on both our parts - mine because something I've waited for with baited breath has not met my expectations (similar to your experience with EVGA as of late and ASUS in the past if I recall correctly) and yours because of a perceived attack on a company you're involved with and a frustration over ignorant conjecture on the part of disgruntled users.

I understand your frustration... but I also understand the frustration of others. I think in customer service, defensiveness (even if completely justifiable) is not conducive to furthering beneficial relationships with the consumer. I certainly know in my work I spend a great deal of time accepting both blame and criticism that I did nothing to warrant and in many cases is the direct result of the client's own actions. That's just business... and I usually find out it comes back to you down the road (good or bad). I'm sure you have had similar experience in your own.
Edited by DiGiCiDAL - 10/9/12 at 11:16am
post #7418 of 10385
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiGiCiDAL View Post

I don't know if it's a matter of poor communication on my part or poor comprehension on yours - at no point in time have your responses addressed the only problem-solution I commented on. I'm very optimistic in regards to ANet eventually getting things sorted (as stated), I also fully comprehend the difficulties in coding AI in regards to pathing/collision logic in a 3D environment (just because I don't write games now doesn't mean I haven't ever).
I would certainly never state that complex user interactions with a dynamic, scalable event (scripted or reactive) could be solved simply or quickly. All I ever said was that a temporary solution to a single, specific problem shouldn't be any harder than applying an already existent set of code (timed expiration and reset) to problematic events so that a full reset was not required. That was all I ever stated should be simple.
If adding a timer does indeed take "hundreds of lines of code" then that is the reason I think they would have needed to triple or quadruple their staff to even have a prayer of fixing all the much, much more complex issues like those in sPvP or WvWvW.
I think we could go around in circles endlessly and not actually achieve communication. There's obviously a level of emotional reaction on both our parts - mine because something I've waited for with baited breath has not met my expectations (similar to your experience with EVGA as of late and ASUS in the past if I recall correctly) and yours because of a perceived attack on a company you're involved with and a frustration over ignorant conjecture on the part of disgruntled users.
I understand your frustration... but I also understand the frustration of others. I think in customer service, defensiveness (even if completely justifiable) is not conducive to furthering beneficial relationships with the consumer. I certainly know in my work I spend a great deal of time accepting both blame and criticism that I did nothing to warrant and in many cases is the direct result of the client's own actions. That's just business... and I usually find out it comes back to you down the road (good or bad). I'm sure you have had similar experience in your own.

I'm addressing the larger issue which, I did by expanding on the coding issue, I guess I didn't explain it well enough.

They've essentially doubled their staff...Which means that, they've doubled their efforts in fixing the thousands of lines of code that are being complained about. That makes me, extremely optimistic however, there is still a pecking order that's bug related and you know that. They're going to prioritize and fix the critical errors before the rest.

Unfortunately, a temporary solution to any of these issues isn't possible because of the coding complexity. Again, this is something you all should know about, I mean we're on OCN. Guild Wars 2 is worlds more complicated than GW1, it shouldn't take a coding expert or an admin to tell you the back end is incredibly more advanced.

I do understand what you're saying, though...That the dynamic of each event, at a base, should be the same but, it's actually not. One of the reasons there's so much diversity is because so many designers worked on the quests...Thus, not each quest actually has a cookie-cutter set of guidelines...Thus, they're all unique. It's because of the uniqueness that this task is difficult...Still, there are now twice as many staff members, as there were before, to address this.

Your point was that you're ultimately not optimistic because of how complicated the coding is...Clearly it will take longer to fix, longer to address and they should have planned for situations like these.

Spvp and WvWvW issues (like disappearing mobs) are actually mostly client-based...It's a result of the driver not working properly, this is mostly a Nvidia issue but, an issue that Anet is working very hard to resolve...In fact, the majority of issues I just read about on the forums, are driver based.

This also isn't the first time that Nvidia has dropped the ball, recently...I was contracted to work on SWTOR when Nvidia dropped the ball on their drivers, it was a mess...The same happened for Diablo 3, actually...Same happened for Borderlands 2...

My point is that I'm extremely optimistic because they've doubled capacity, doubled their staff, are working twice as hard on the complicated code and sometimes there are growing pains...It happens when you finally drop Apache and move to a realistic server base that allows for real-time updates (Which some of you have experienced).

I don't mean to come off as being offended because I'm not taking offense nor defending anything, I'm simply offering a perspective from someone that has/does work with A-Net...I'm also extremely optimistic that they're addressing //all// of your concerns...They did stop selling their product for a week so that they could accommodate all of you in the CS and Server department...That says a lot.

Again, I'm not trying to fight anything any of you say, I'm simply addressing inaccurate 'facts' many of you all or the internet seem to have.

I also agree, they fell behind the ball, they dropped it BUT, they made a tremendous effort to pick the ball back up again and did so at the cost of sales...Many of you take this for granted...No company in the history of this industry has STOPPED SALES to fix a product. Never. Not Blizzard, not Bioware, not Irrational, not Gearbox, not Valve...Nobody except for A-Net and in the very least, that deserves a tremendous amount of optimism.

I'm incredibly optimistic thumb.gif
post #7419 of 10385
Damn muscle memory and anet reorganizing the Guardian greatsword skills.
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post #7420 of 10385
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myrtl View Post

As annoying as the invisible army is, I still love WvW.

Wow, people are incredibly easy to please these days.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked View Post

Spvp and WvWvW issues (like disappearing mobs) are actually mostly client-based...It's a result of the driver not working properly, this is mostly a Nvidia issue but, an issue that Anet is working very hard to resolve...In fact, the majority of issues I just read about on the forums, are driver based.

I'm incredibly optimistic thumb.gif

That is so incredibly far off the mark it isn't even funny. GPU drivers causing invisible armies? Now I have heard of everything. rolleyes.gif

Maybe my entire guild using computers of all types of hardware that all have the invisible army problem and have to constantly log on and off to play the game are delusional eh? kookoo.gif
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Overclock.net › Forums › Video Games › PC Gaming › [Official] Guild Wars 2 Discussion, Video & Screenshot Thread