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[Official] Guild Wars 2 Discussion, Video & Screenshot Thread - Page 743

post #7421 of 10385
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myrtl View Post

In WvWvW last night, the keep I was defending was under heavy attack. I saw someone jump from the ramparts (was at full health) and they instantly died. I didn't see anything around them and wondered what had just happened. I threw a piece of chicken into that shadowy area below and it instantly turned to bone. When I used my sonic grenade, I was able to detect hundreds of life forms even though I couldn't see them. I realized it was the Vashta Nerada! It all made sense. The only thing we could do was run. (Semi true story)

As annoying as the invisible army is, I still love WvW.

A fellow Who fan!

Sent from my DROID X Running ICS CM9
post #7422 of 10385
Quote:
Originally Posted by CallsignVega View Post

Wow, people are incredibly easy to please these days.
That is so incredibly far off the mark it isn't even funny. GPU drivers causing invisible armies? Now I have heard of everything. rolleyes.gif
Maybe my entire guild using computers of all types of hardware that all have the invisible army problem and have to constantly log on and off to play the game are delusional eh? kookoo.gif

When my life is on the line, I will demand perfection. Until then, I don't sweat the little stuff. The invisible army is annoying, but I don't let those few times it happen deminish my enjoyment of WvW.
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post #7423 of 10385
See now this kind of bug is actually hillarious to me... undoubtedly as result of them tightening the code regarding map edges due to exploits... I have to admit I LOL'd at the fact that the ore was literally a foot (a Norn foot but still) away from my hand before the edge-guarding code pushed me back 4-5 body lengths away from it... it was taunting me personally I'm sure of it. biggrin.gif

gw023_zpsf51dc979.jpg

And yes, I was afraid that what you were describing was potentially the case as far as event fixing was concerned... however, I assumed a developer the size and containing the talent of ANet would have a very stable, modular, and code-share friendly framework. That's apparently not the case or is only the case for the render engine and core logic - in which case I'm very glad someone else has to deal with the bug fixes. Coincidentally, that does make me even more impressed that they've gotten as much accomplished as they have - it can only get harder from here out.

Anyway, things are getting better - just spent a little time finishing up Mount Maelstrom and unlike the last time - every event was either operational, or dormant... I think only 3 were working the first time I made the attempt. That IS some progress! thumb.gif

Oh have to agree about the drivers not causing the invisible armies... at least, if that's a problem it's not isolated to Nvidia... I'm running the latest drivers on a 6950 and I have seen (or NOT SEEN actually) the exact same thing. I think it's more likely a problem with the GW2 client renderer not calling something correctly in DirectX... but I'm sure I'm not qualified to venture that guess. wink.gif
Edited by DiGiCiDAL - 10/9/12 at 2:32pm
post #7424 of 10385
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiGiCiDAL View Post

See now this kind of bug is actually hillarious to me... undoubtedly as result of them tightening the code regarding map edges due to exploits... I have to admit I LOL'd at the fact that the ore was literally a foot (a Norn foot but still) away from my hand before the edge-guarding code pushed me back 4-5 body lengths away from it... it was taunting me personally I'm sure of it. biggrin.gif

Same thing happened to me when I found a whale that I could target, just out of range.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Beregond View Post

Damn muscle memory and anet reorganizing the Guardian greatsword skills.

I've gotten used to it now but I almost reconfigured the controls to hit them in the order they used to be in madsmiley.png
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post #7425 of 10385
Quote:
Originally Posted by CallsignVega View Post

That is so incredibly far off the mark it isn't even funny. GPU drivers causing invisible armies? Now I have heard of everything. rolleyes.gif
Maybe my entire guild using computers of all types of hardware that all have the invisible army problem and have to constantly log on and off to play the game are delusional eh? kookoo.gif

...I'd suggest you read up on artifacting and driver integration especially when combined with DX...Would be surprised what you could actually learn.

I also didn't say it was exclusive to Nvidia...so, context, ftw. thumb.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiGiCiDAL View Post

See now this kind of bug is actually hillarious to me... undoubtedly as result of them tightening the code regarding map edges due to exploits... I have to admit I LOL'd at the fact that the ore was literally a foot (a Norn foot but still) away from my hand before the edge-guarding code pushed me back 4-5 body lengths away from it... it was taunting me personally I'm sure of it. biggrin.gif

Oh have to agree about the drivers not causing the invisible armies... at least, if that's a problem it's not isolated to Nvidia... I'm running the latest drivers on a 6950 and I have seen (or NOT SEEN actually) the exact same thing. I think it's more likely a problem with the GW2 client renderer not calling something correctly in DirectX... but I'm sure I'm not qualified to venture that guess. wink.gif

I made a few calls last night and received, basically the same answer I posted.

There are issues with DX/Drivers/Client rendering...It's not exclusively one or the other, it's a combination of several problems.

A code was actually pushed live on the 7th, that created the error which is why there were very few instances of this happening before...It's believed to have been added with the camera adjustment, last patch.

It also existed previously for some players but, not as severely...The render would still occur but, far beyond the point of said PC entering the clip plane.

I was told that as soon as they could pinpoint the code, they'd push a hotfix live...However, considering there was an error effecting people BEFORE the code was pushed live, they're working with several entities to resolve the problem, asap.

Personally, I'm still waiting for the player end-quest rewards to be fixed...Those will be fixed on the patch of the 22nd.

Like I said, optimistic! thumb.gif
post #7426 of 10385
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked View Post

...I'd suggest you read up on artifacting and driver integration especially when combined with DX...Would be surprised what you could actually learn.
I also didn't say it was exclusive to Nvidia...so, context, ftw. thumb.gif
I made a few calls last night and received, basically the same answer I posted.
There are issues with DX/Drivers/Client rendering...It's not exclusively one or the other, it's a combination of several problems.
A code was actually pushed live on the 7th, that created the error which is why there were very few instances of this happening before...It's believed to have been added with the camera adjustment, last patch.
It also existed previously for some players but, not as severely...The render would still occur but, far beyond the point of said PC entering the clip plane.
I was told that as soon as they could pinpoint the code, they'd push a hotfix live...However, considering there was an error effecting people BEFORE the code was pushed live, they're working with several entities to resolve the problem, asap.
Personally, I'm still waiting for the player end-quest rewards to be fixed...Those will be fixed on the patch of the 22nd.
Like I said, optimistic! thumb.gif

Right. The point is zero changes need to be made to any and all GPU drivers. It's their poorly programmed game causing this issue, not some silly "it's the GPU drivers fault" nonsense that you brought up before. Maybe ANet can call up NVIDIA and AMD to help them "fix" their game. rolleyes.gif

BTW this problem has existed since launch to one degree or another. ANet just made it ten times worse. Game is flawed at a basic level.
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post #7427 of 10385
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Originally Posted by CallsignVega View Post

Right. The point is zero changes need to be made to any and all GPU drivers. It's their poorly programmed game causing this issue, not some silly "it's the GPU drivers fault" nonsense that you brought up before. Maybe ANet can call up NVIDIA and AMD to help them "fix" their game. rolleyes.gif
BTW this problem has existed since launch to one degree or another. ANet just made it ten times worse. Game is flawed at a basic level.

I will disagree about the driver stance you have...Especially after working on SWTOR for as long as I did. Nvidia essentially, due to lack of driver integration at all, crippled the launch of SWTOR, after promising Bioware for 2+ months to have a fully integrated driver on release. In fact, there are posts and posts and posts of these examples in the Official SWTOR thread...Many of these issues included artifacting, random geometries scaling/suddenly appearing, invisible mobs...etc...so, I vehemently disagree that a driver cannot cause rendering issues and/or fragmenting in a game environment.

In regards to A-net, it's their answer, not mine.

Having experienced this before and having previously assisted in troubleshooting the problem, I've actually seen identical issues emerge. As I mentioned in SWTOR. In that instance, beta testers had commented at length about driver performance and the issues they had going from driver --> driver...Ultimately, Nvidia fixed the issue...And if I recall, it was addressed in the Rage patch as well (Another blunder by both AMD and Nvidia rolleyes.gif)

I'm a privately contracted admin...Not a developer...I can sit here and rabble on all day about Nginx, Unix, Ubuntu or Server and we could have a compelling week-long conversation...But, a combination of what we've discussed so far; not an expert...So I can only relate the experiences I've had...And being part of the team that worked with AMD/Nvidia...I can tell you first hand, it was an incredible disaster because neither Nvidia nor AMD had their "business" together.

Quite frankly, I think it's more/less a server issue but, since I haven't received a call yet to go fix a problem or address an issue, I can only speculate/relay what they tell me.

Again, not disagreeing they dropped the ball...Not disagreeing they've had issues since day 1...I absolutely side with you guys on those issues...However, on the driver issue, I've seen this before, so, I can only go with what my experience tells me...But again, their coding is far more advanced than SWTOR's so, ultimately, their answer at the moment, is the ultimate.

I'll keep you guys updated, if you like...Just, try not to shoot the messenger. thumb.gif
post #7428 of 10385
Well, like you mentioned, it only got really bad since the last patch that came out, what was it, last Saturday? It was 100% the patch as my GPU drivers haven't changed. There has always been some player culling problems since the game launched, but not nearly as extreme as since the last patch. Basically made WvW unplayable and most of my guild doesn't even log on anymore. I just haven't seen a PvP game handle large groups of people this bad in a very long time. I personally think they really skimped on the server hardware, but I have no proof of that.
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post #7429 of 10385
Quote:
Originally Posted by CallsignVega View Post

Right. The point is zero changes need to be made to any and all GPU drivers. It's their poorly programmed game causing this issue, not some silly "it's the GPU drivers fault" nonsense that you brought up before. Maybe ANet can call up NVIDIA and AMD to help them "fix" their game. rolleyes.gif
BTW this problem has existed since launch to one degree or another. ANet just made it ten times worse. Game is flawed at a basic level.

Well, I wouldn't say the game is flawed at a basic level... if that were the case we couldn't log on at all or wouldn't be able to play PvE or PvP or WvWvW at all. There are definitely rendering issues, but to me most of these actually come from the way they've designed the camera interactions... which they are working on - but I'm afraid the 'growing pains' are going to be pretty brutal if they truly fix all of them.

The camera is so basic to the operation of the game that any changes they make are likely to have far-reaching collateral effects. On this one I can understand their position and also understand the delays (which I expect to be significant) in making any sort of sweeping changes to rendering. As far as ANet calling up Nvidia and AMD... I guarantee that any developer their size already has contacts within both companies to try to collaborate/troubleshoot any issues. I agree with you that drivers are not the only culprit here - but drivers are just software written by human beings (albeit very nerdy engineering types usually) so they are often just as flawed as a game is... they are just more likely to have their bugs found quickly because everyone with a GPU uses the drivers... not everyone has a particular game installed.

There are also numerous issues in working with any Microsoft libraries, controls, etc... even ones with as much scrutiny and use as Direct X. The problem is rarely in the function - but often in the documentation, because there are literally hundreds of time that Microsoft says to do something one way (which doesn't work) and until you figure out what they meant to say.... you're left with re-inventing the wheel. Although I find Masked's responses somewhat condescending, patronizing, and confrontational in tone (which in all fairness... it does say "Pretentious" right under his name wink.gif ) I have to agree with him on this point... the problem can come from almost anywhere and simply saying that one Direct X game works on a given card with given drivers does not mean that the problem lies exclusively with the way the client is programmed. It's usually a combination of multiple participants.

As far as the 'fix' creating problems... I can second that... I haven't had the game crash since the first week... now it's doing that again. rolleyes.gif
Edited by DiGiCiDAL - 10/10/12 at 9:46am
post #7430 of 10385
Quote:
Originally Posted by CallsignVega View Post

I personally think they really skimped on the server hardware, but I have no proof of that.

They're using custom OCP's (custom designed servers) that are practically the same as Google's so, in terms of server hardware, it's very high quality, custom stuff...I can't get into detail beyond that but, the servers they're using, rival Blizzards in terms of quality.

Like I said, rendering is done some-what universally and separately...I can't explain this as well as I'd like to but, for you to render something in the distance, essentially 4/5 different functions come together to materialize that person for you...If one or two of those functions is broken, which, is what I can take from what you've all said then, they have to find that function and address the issue.

Another issue that was discovered this morning (you guys are getting somewhat of an exclusive here) is that hackers are actually wiping everything and forcing a mechanic that has been unprecedented which, is everything spawning at the same time...This hadn't been forseen as an issue but, clearly having many NPC's stack/spawn from the same location is a massive problem...So, things like that are being changed as well, just to ensure that NPC's under the world aren't something that's going to occur again, regardless of the reasoning as to why.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiGiCiDAL View Post

There are also numerous issues in working with any Microsoft libraries, controls, etc... even ones with as much scrutiny and use as Direct X. The problem is rarely in the function - but often in the documentation, because there are literally hundreds of time that Microsoft says to do something one way (which doesn't work) and until you figure out what they meant to say.... you're left with re-inventing the wheel. Although I find Masked's responses somewhat condescending, patronizing, and confrontational in tone (which in all fairness... it does say "Pretentious" right under his name wink.gif ) I have to agree with him on this point... the problem can come from almost anywhere and simply saying that one Direct X game works on a given card with given drivers does not mean that the problem lies exclusively with the way the client is programmed. It's usually a combination of multiple participants.
As far as the 'fix' creating problems... I can second that... I haven't had the game crash since the first week... now it's doing that again. rolleyes.gif

I seem to come off as a pretentious villain in most of my posts and that's definitely my objective so, I do apologize...It's more of an inside joke but, it's not my goal to be patronizing nor confrontational so, I thank you for that criticism and it's something I'll work on in the future.

That being said, you are correct and have explained the issue far beyond what I was capable of, thank you.

I believe it has something to do with the camera function and it's interaction with the rendering process so, they're actually looking over that code.

You are right in that this will take quite a bit of time to fix but, as was pointed out to me last night, I was incorrect about the coding aspect of the game, for the most part. They followed universally friendly mechanics for every process but, the quests themselves, differ; the quests are what are unique, especially the single-player instanced quests which is why those are difficult to address...So, I was wrong and I apologize for that as well.

Just a FYI, I crash as well now thumbsdownsmileyanim.gif
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