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post #801 of 10385
Armageddon, my point is that Guild Wars was not a WoW clone and that is why it sold the majority of it's 6.5 million copies. There are millions of people that don't play WoW for one reason or another.

For me, any game that I have tried and quit, I usually quit because of some characteristic that I also found present in WoW. Did I give them a fiar shot, yes, I would say so. I payed WoW for subscriptions three separate times, each for a period of 3 months, hoping that I would find something I liked. I pre-ordered and played Aion. I beta tested, pre-ordered and played RIFT, buying 9 months of time in the hopes that I would learn to love it like I loved GW. LotRo... OMG I am soooo freaking mad about it I can't even explain.



The 3 BIG REASONS:
  1. Kill Quests
    • Go kill 10 level 1 Wolves
    • Go kill 30 level 10 Wolves
    • Go kill 40 level 20 Wolves
    • etc....
    • You should never be rewarded for mindless quests more than your are for following the story line. EVER. First and foremost, these games are Fantasy or Science Fiction STORIES.
  2. Crafting grind
    Guild Wars system was the best period. I need new armor or weapons, I collect or buy the mats then go to the Crafting NPC and buy it. I can modify it to some extent with runes
    inignias, upgrades, and dyes.
  3. Method of travel
    Really? Really? I have to run everywhere I want to go, or spend money to watch a bird or horse carry me there?
    Then, after I have ground my way to the halfway point of my character's progression, you'll let me buy a mount, if I can afford it; but I STILL have to wait for the critter to run across the world?
    Once again, GW wins with map travel.

I understand that if you charge a monthly subscription fee, it is in your best interest to make the game a grindfest. The longer the player has to spend on your servers, the more months you will earn money. But GW didn't have and GW2 will not have a monthly fee - so why change their methods?

I have a feeling that Armageddon is going to like GW2 whereas I am going to be upset....

PLEASE ANET, PLEASE DON'T CONFORM! I have been waiting for GW2 since before the Factions release, when you teased us with the ability to play different races and talked about giving us a z-axis.
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post #802 of 10385
Thread Starter 
meh. it's possible to be different from Guild Wars and still be different from WoW.

nothing more can be done to give anyone a better picture of the game than what i have already done.
post #803 of 10385
Quote:
Originally Posted by grishkathefool View Post

Armageddon, my point is that Guild Wars was not a WoW clone and that is why it sold the majority of it's 6.5 million copies. There are millions of people that don't play WoW for one reason or another.
For me, any game that I have tried and quit, I usually quit because of some characteristic that I also found present in WoW. Did I give them a fiar shot, yes, I would say so. I payed WoW for subscriptions three separate times, each for a period of 3 months, hoping that I would find something I liked. I pre-ordered and played Aion. I beta tested, pre-ordered and played RIFT, buying 9 months of time in the hopes that I would learn to love it like I loved GW. LotRo... OMG I am soooo freaking mad about it I can't even explain.
The 3 BIG REASONS:
  1. Kill Quests
    • Go kill 10 level 1 Wolves
    • Go kill 30 level 10 Wolves
    • Go kill 40 level 20 Wolves
    • etc....
    • You should never be rewarded for mindless quests more than your are for following the story line. EVER. First and foremost, these games are Fantasy or Science Fiction STORIES.
  2. Crafting grind
    Guild Wars system was the best period. I need new armor or weapons, I collect or buy the mats then go to the Crafting NPC and buy it. I can modify it to some extent with runes
    inignias, upgrades, and dyes.
  3. Method of travel
    Really? Really? I have to run everywhere I want to go, or spend money to watch a bird or horse carry me there?
    Then, after I have ground my way to the halfway point of my character's progression, you'll let me buy a mount, if I can afford it; but I STILL have to wait for the critter to run across the world?
    Once again, GW wins with map travel.
I understand that if you charge a monthly subscription fee, it is in your best interest to make the game a grindfest. The longer the player has to spend on your servers, the more months you will earn money. But GW didn't have and GW2 will not have a monthly fee - so why change their methods?
I have a feeling that Armageddon is going to like GW2 whereas I am going to be upset....
PLEASE ANET, PLEASE DON'T CONFORM! I have been waiting for GW2 since before the Factions release, when you teased us with the ability to play different races and talked about giving us a z-axis.

Couldn't state it better
    
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post #804 of 10385
Quote:
Originally Posted by grishkathefool View Post

Armageddon, my point is that Guild Wars was not a WoW clone and that is why it sold the majority of it's 6.5 million copies. There are millions of people that don't play WoW for one reason or another.
For me, any game that I have tried and quit, I usually quit because of some characteristic that I also found present in WoW. Did I give them a fiar shot, yes, I would say so. I payed WoW for subscriptions three separate times, each for a period of 3 months, hoping that I would find something I liked. I pre-ordered and played Aion. I beta tested, pre-ordered and played RIFT, buying 9 months of time in the hopes that I would learn to love it like I loved GW. LotRo... OMG I am soooo freaking mad about it I can't even explain.

Did i say it HAD to be a wow clone? there are plenty of ways of improving on GW and still be different to Wow. I understand the need for it be something different BUT does it have to go to such a reverse that it seems they care about the PvE side of the game anywhere near as much as they do for the PvP side - Not everyone that plays MMO games loves PvP some (like me) do it only when bored or something

And the way they have gone on about it with the news about the PvP competitions and such seem to indicate that they will concentrate more for PvP then they will PvE, i understand that they want to be different, but to have what seems such a lack of End Game content i think WILL harm the game. In this sense i can see why it isnt a Pay Monthly game, as i would be unsure how many people would stick around for along time with such content structure

Of course i can see how good the WvWvW could be - but does that mean i would want to do that and no PvE content? No - i enjoy PvE content and as such i enjoy Raids, Dungeons and such. Though the Dynamic Events could be good even with the adjusted difficulty level i would be unsure of exactly how long that can keep people going - difficulty doesnt equal happiness


The 3 BIG REASONS:
  1. Kill Quests
    • Go kill 10 level 1 Wolves
    • Go kill 30 level 10 Wolves
    • Go kill 40 level 20 Wolves
    • etc....
    • You should never be rewarded for mindless quests more than your are for following the story line. EVER. First and foremost, these games are Fantasy or Science Fiction STORIES.
  2. Crafting grind
    Guild Wars system was the best period. I need new armor or weapons, I collect or buy the mats then go to the Crafting NPC and buy it. I can modify it to some extent with runes
    inignias, upgrades, and dyes.
  3. Method of travel
    Really? Really? I have to run everywhere I want to go, or spend money to watch a bird or horse carry me there?
    Then, after I have ground my way to the halfway point of my character's progression, you'll let me buy a mount, if I can afford it; but I STILL have to wait for the critter to run across the world?
    Once again, GW wins with map travel.

No game is going to be able to fully revolutionize the questing in MMO games and you will always have the same kind of quest objectives, there isnt alot you can do about that really. Granted the crafting system in Guild Wars is good BUT there really isnt any feeling of reward like you would get doing it in GW rather then having to work to level a profession up and then create a weapon/armor item that you would get in games like wow or rift

I disagree with the map travel, not everyone likes to get straight to the location and do Quest X. Some (me included) like to travel about a bit - go for a random ride and i think Rift has a better system for it. You get rewarded for exploration with item caches and puzzles that drop good useless items as well as titles and other things. I Agree the Wow way was kinda boring, if i wanted to instant travel somewhere i could but if wanted to go for a random travel i could as well (using a mount) it would get a bit TOO boring having to run everywhere and same goes if you could instant travel everywhere and being able to go everywhere without even having found the place sucks (this part s guess work based on demos - it could be wrong)


I understand that if you charge a monthly subscription fee, it is in your best interest to make the game a grindfest. The longer the player has to spend on your servers, the more months you will earn money. But GW didn't have and GW2 will not have a monthly fee - so why change their methods?
I have a feeling that Armageddon is going to like GW2 whereas I am going to be upset....
PLEASE ANET, PLEASE DON'T CONFORM! I have been waiting for GW2 since before the Factions release, when you teased us with the ability to play different races and talked about giving us a z-axis.

As i said, i can see why this isn't a Pay Monthly title, sure it will keep PvPers going but how long would people that only PvE keep going and keep paying? That i think is the reason the game isn't getting a pay monthly fee a PvP community only wouldnt be enough and so they are countering the fact there is very little PvE end game content with the fact that you dont have any Monthly fees

Again, they CAN add more end game content WITHOUT fully going the whole WoW route, its just too me at least they are concentrating TOO much on the PvP side of the game and not adding any real end game content, i wouldnt call the Dynamic Events as End Game content as much as a lvl 80 raid would be seeing as you could do these events with lower level characters, just like i did with the events on Rift. it wouldnt take THAT much for them to add some level 80 content. I understand the dungeons are the same as the events that change via your level again not really that good if its the same content over and over

And Yes, i know thats what raids are but doing Raids over and over with 9-24 other people far exceeds doing the same content (dungeons) over and over with 4 other people. How many different Dynamic Events will be in the game? i mean if its like 5-10 that just isnt enough, it would have to be quite alot more if its going to be replacing Raid content


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post #805 of 10385
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLCLimax View Post

meh. it's possible to be different from Guild Wars and still be different from WoW.

nothing more can be done to give anyone a better picture of the game than what i have already done
.

Climax, you are doing an outstanding job, man. Thank you very much for your effort!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmageddonAsh 
I disagree with the map travel, not everyone likes to get straight to the location and do Quest X. Some (me included) like to travel about a bit - go for a random ride and i think Rift has a better system for it. You get rewarded for exploration with item caches and puzzles that drop good useless items as well as titles and other things. I Agree the Wow way was kinda boring, if i wanted to instant travel somewhere i could but if wanted to go for a random travel i could as well (using a mount) it would get a bit TOO boring having to run everywhere and same goes if you could instant travel everywhere and being able to go everywhere without even having found the place sucks (this part s guess work based on demos - it could be wrong)

That's cool. I understand what your saying, heck, my primary toon in GW has the Legendary Cartographer title because I explored every inch of all the continents.
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post #806 of 10385
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmageddonAsh View Post

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For me, endgame should be content of increased difficulty. The harder, the better. The devs, when talking about endgame, mention the hard modes of each dungeon, with 3 quite different pathways that will lead you down content you haven't seen in the same dungeon. 8 dungeons I think at launch, so 24 pathways in total; assuming the pathways are significantly difficult ( I feel there's a decent chance they will be) and significantly different (by the sounds of it they are) then there's that. In addition to this, the devs talk about a continent named Orr, which is apparently the endgame continent/region w/e with significantly difficult dynamic events. There's 1600 dynamic event chains in the game btw - all different areas, effects, content, enemies and difficulty.
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post #807 of 10385
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmageddonAsh View Post

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Just 3 little questions...How long did you play gw, when did you play gw and how far did you manage to get yourself through the story lines.

I've been playing GW1 since the start, played more than I should have in the first 3 years and now I ended up barrely playing it (goes for every game tongue.gif).
I must say it has never bored me much, maybe a bit sometimes, but those moments can't hold it against the fun moments redface.gif.
I've tested WoW and my first thought was 'wow, lots of players, I like that', second thought was ' is this a freakin cartoon?', the graphics made it look ridiculous imho...

But anyways, I wonder why you keep hammering on the fact that GW is based on PvP. I don't think you've played it at the right time, because seriously, I haven't done much PvP at all, just during events actually, which would give double bonuses towards titles and possibly money (easy teams in Heroes' Ascent hhaha biggrin.gif). But that's about it, some PvP missions for fun (Fort Aspenwood/Jade Quarry) or when I needed zaishen keys. But that's really it. I've spent so much more time on PvE, that I don't see your point of the PvE side of the game lacking content O.o.
Or you didn't play for long/at the right time, or you didn't get far enough through the game (don't tell me you based your opinion on the starter islands, please).

Why I'm saying 'not the right time' is pretty much because of the fact that the game lost a lot of high-end players that got bored of doing stuff that should be done in 2-3 years in total (not-no-life) instead of a couple of moments playing every single second they can breath (no-life). Of course this didn't help other players in PvE much, since teaming up isn't much of a possibility anymore...pitty enough. Don't judge GW on how it looks like these days, it's known way better times than these.

Also, I have to admit one thing (you didn't talk about it though) myself: the changes the dev team made during the game to titles etc, was pretty much the worst thing you could do during a game if you ask me (except for the alcohol title, that one was kinda crazy). They took out a whole lot of balanced content, fuzzled with it, made it easier for the guys not having the time to do the hard stuff and put it all back in there just like that, which made it all too easy... Ooooh yes I miss the old teams, just farming trolls together hahah. But still, Guild Wars used to have a great balance between PvP and PvE, but in my opinion, they should've never touched any of the long-term titles, both the PvP and PvE kind of titles frown.gif. Too many players left because of it, the game became much less attractive to play for me.

I'm not sure if I should get GW2, I wouldn't tolerate anything like those changes again.. and just quit right away. The game was great though! teaming up with my cousins, getting money, progress, armor,... Love it smile.gif
Edited by Ollii - 12/26/11 at 3:17pm
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post #808 of 10385
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perdition64 View Post

For me, endgame should be content of increased difficulty. The harder, the better. The devs, when talking about endgame, mention the hard modes of each dungeon, with 3 quite different pathways that will lead you down content you haven't seen in the same dungeon. 8 dungeons I think at launch, so 24 pathways in total; assuming the pathways are significantly difficult ( I feel there's a decent chance they will be) and significantly different (by the sounds of it they are) then there's that. In addition to this, the devs talk about a continent named Orr, which is apparently the endgame continent/region w/e with significantly difficult dynamic events. There's 1600 dynamic event chains in the game btw - all different areas, effects, content, enemies and difficulty.

Same here - Harder the better. Thats what gets increasingly annoying with wow the constant nurfs to the raid makes it crappy and boring. By hard mode, how exactly is it? i mean take the Cata Heroics at first they are GREAT because they were so hard and required tactics within a month they had become boring, tacticless and very easy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollii View Post

Just 3 little questions...How long did you play gw, when did you play gw and how far did you manage to get yourself through the story lines.
I've been playing GW1 since the start, played more than I should have in the first 3 years and now I ended up barrely playing it (goes for every game tongue.gif).
I must say it has never bored me much, maybe a bit sometimes, but those moments can't hold it against the fun moments redface.gif.
I've tested WoW and my first thought was 'wow, lots of players, I like that', second thought was ' is this a freakin cartoon?', the graphics made it look ridiculous imho...
But anyways, I wonder why you keep hammering on the fact that GW is based on PvP. I don't think you've played it at the right time, because seriously, I haven't done much PvP at all, just during events actually, which would give double bonuses towards titles and possibly money (easy teams in Heroes' Ascent hhaha biggrin.gif). But that's about it, some PvP missions for fun (Fort Aspenwood/Jade Quarry) or when I needed zaishen keys. But that's really it. I've spent so much more time on PvE, that I don't see your point of the PvE side of the game lacking content O.o.

Or you didn't play for long/at the right time, or you didn't get far enough through the game (don't tell me you based your opinion on the starter islands, please).
Why I'm saying 'not the right time' is pretty much because of the fact that the game lost a lot of high-end players that got bored of doing stuff that should be done in 2-3 years in total (not-no-life) instead of a couple of moments playing every single second they can breath (no-life). Of course this didn't help other players in PvE much, since teaming up isn't much of a possibility anymore...pitty enough. Don't judge GW on how it looks like these days, it's known way better times than these.
Also, I have to admit one thing (you didn't talk about it though) myself: the changes the dev team made during the game to titles etc, was pretty much the worst thing you could do during a game if you ask me (except for the alcohol title, that one was kinda crazy). They took out a whole lot of balanced content, fuzzled with it, made it easier for the guys not having the time to do the hard stuff and put it all back in there just like that, which made it all too easy... Ooooh yes I miss the old teams, just farming trolls together hahah. But still, Guild Wars used to have a great balance between PvP and PvE, but in my opinion, they should've never touched any of the long-term titles, both the PvP and PvE kind of titles frown.gif. Too many players left because of it, the game became much less attractive to play for me.
I'm not sure if I should get GW2, I wouldn't tolerate anything like those changes again.. and just quit right away. The game was great though! teaming up with my cousins, getting money, progress, armor,... Love it smile.gif

Maybe it was because i didnt play it at the right time, i did like the story, but the quests were kinda boring hating only seeing people in towns/cities. Of course GW2 will be different, starting off when its new and the fact they removed them stupid instanced sections alone makes it sound good. I guess only time will tell exactly how well its going to be going by speculation and previous games - though seeing the combat and the story gives me hope as the combat and story both look fun.

It was the content and gameplay of Wow that i enjoyed, graphics is a side bonus as long as the content, gameplay and enjoyment is there i am happy
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post #809 of 10385
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Originally Posted by ArmageddonAsh View Post

Same here - Harder the better. Thats what gets increasingly annoying with wow the constant nurfs to the raid makes it crappy and boring. By hard mode, how exactly is it? i mean take the Cata Heroics at first they are GREAT because they were so hard and required tactics within a month they had become boring, tacticless and very easy.
Maybe it was because i didnt play it at the right time, i did like the story, but the quests were kinda boring hating only seeing people in towns/cities. Of course GW2 will be different, starting off when its new and the fact they removed them stupid instanced sections alone makes it sound good. I guess only time will tell exactly how well its going to be going by speculation and previous games - though seeing the combat and the story gives me hope as the combat and story both look fun.
It was the content and gameplay of Wow that i enjoyed, graphics is a side bonus as long as the content, gameplay and enjoyment is there i am happy

You've got a point there. WoW's gameplay isn't bad at all, it's fun actually. But then the question of monthly payment kicked in...ciao WoW... time = money, and you spend both time and money on WoW, so yeah, money² ;p. I don't like the idea of keeping players online just because they've payed for it...
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post #810 of 10385
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Originally Posted by Ollii View Post

You've got a point there. WoW's gameplay isn't bad at all, it's fun actually. But then the question of monthly payment kicked in...ciao WoW... time = money, and you spend both time and money on WoW, so yeah, money² ;p. I don't like the idea of keeping players online just because they've payed for it...

Yeah i agree, Monthly payments can be a pain. Its good that if you go for a bigger subscription then its cheaper. WoW has some GREAT gameplay and ideas, and its shown by just much of a success it is. But that same success has been damaging to it - The lack of really adding anything new, re-hashing old content and adding combat gameplay that doesnt require anything.

WoW has some great advantages of it - Loads of content, fun (at first) dungeons, raids and PvP (can be kinda unbalanced) and its got loads of players (some can be ****s) and has decent graphics for how old it is. But the combat can get very boring with lack of any tactics other then Kill Target and heal those that are dying. The graphics are kind of a down point as well for me with a good computer should have better options.

How ever the longer the game has gone on the worse it has gotten to be partly expected i guess but the Expansions have gotten worse and worse completely changing talent system every 5 seconds doesnt help, re-hashing content in new Expansions and not really adding any new content that requires much tactics after the first few weeks or for about the first month when everyone is new but then everyone gets out geared fast and it becomes boring as hell.

The new expansion is even worse - stupid panda race that ONLY appeared as a JOKE race in WC3 and making the whole expansion aimed for the Chinese is kind of a slap in the face of EVERYONE else. I mean just because wow is opening up to Chinese market there isnt really any need to make a WHOLE expansion purely for them.
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