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Need help on Asus P4P800E-Deluxe + 2.4 GHz Prescott - Page 3

post #21 of 36
Thread Starter 
Ropley, Can you explain this one little issue about MORE POWER NEEDED for the CPU in order to increase the GHz higher for my set-up? I'm trying to understand why is that with the 350W PSU is still not enough for this Prescott 2.4A; but I must need the 450W PSU to better higher overclock? Please define while I'm still decide to go ahead and place order for your recommend PSU. However, can you USE ANY 450W PSU like the NSPIRE model NSP-450P4DL? What is your opinion on this puppy? Please advice
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post #22 of 36
The Intel Prescott is one of the hottest processors money can buy despite the die-shrink. There is a condition called "Threshold Voltage" which is the amount of power necessary to turn on and switch the transistors gates. Prescott switches their gates much quicker than their predecessor "Northwood" and Intel did not take into account the leakage of the switching gates power or the wire delay for which Prescott is infamous.

There is a formula for switching power:

Power ~ ½ CV ² Af

This formula states that dissipated power is linear with the effective capacitance, activity and frequency. Power increases quadratically with the CPU's core voltage. Thus when you overclock you are increasing the necessary voltage by a multiple of four, not one for one and with the already heady requirements of Prescott it is necessary for a strongly functioning power to supply these needs.

Now leakage power is a fundamental sieve with relation to dynamic power because the leakage power increases exponentially not linearly. Remember when you watered the lawn and there were tiny holes in the water hose? How they somehow got bigger as time went on? Of course the bigger the hole the more water you lose. This is how leakage power works and is part of a current so one (at this time of technology) can not fundamentally stop the leakage, one can only hold it in some form of abeyance.

Then added to the power loss (and hence more power of necessity) there is an added effect called "Wire Delay" which is the effect of the switching speeds and the resistance of the capacitors (RC). Now as you pump up the voltage the RC becomes more of a power bottleneck and thus needs more voltage for the signal to travel.

So the Prescott's failure (and it can be called nothing less) was the exploding leakage power with wire delay even though it was somewhat contained by additional technology introducing high-K materials and SOI (Silicon-on-Insulator), however this did nothing to slow down the power hungry requirements of Prescott and served only to allow the substrate to accept such power.

So your overclocking of the Prescott necessitates a very decent power supply and one which can accept both a linear quadratic (^4) raise of peak along with an exponential power leakage dissipation.

Research:

http://www.ce.chalmers.se/~warg/pape..._tr-2004-9.pdf

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/05...eld_uncovered/

http://www.intel.com/pressroom/archi...ns20020227.htm

http://www.intel.com/pressroom/archi...040907corp.htm

Edit:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddedicate
However, can you USE ANY 450W PSU like the NSPIRE model NSP-450P4DL? What is your opinion on this puppy?
I can not say as I have not used that PSU and one can play games with voltage/amperage readouts. They do not take into account spike term fluctuations etc so I will only advise on PSU's I have used and tested. You might wish to post in the Power Supply section to determine if this is indeed a decently functioning PSU. It has 40A on the +5, 20A on the +12 and 28A on the +3.3 rail. Keep in mind that the +12 is a single rail. For me the +12 is a bit light but I have never used it so can not speak with any real knowlege of this PSU. The Fortron has dual +12 Rails with 18A on each 12+ rail.

R
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post #23 of 36
since ya dont wanna post a cpu-z ill just ask ya.. what revision is your processer and what is the stepping
    
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post #24 of 36
Thread Starter 
Ropey - You're the BEST I just can't ask for anything more... Though, I'll try out this NSPIRE model NSP-450P4DL this weekend to see how things will turn out; and get back to you with the result. Thanks again.
Trippen Out - I haven't get a chance to take a snap-shot of the CPU-Z on my system yet, but I'll surely try it tonight and post them tomorrow for your closer observation. Thanks for remind me...
Look like I have more experiment to go on....
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post #25 of 36
Thread Starter 
O.K. Here is the spec. for my new PSU by NSpire, model NSP-450P4DL:
Voltage (115/230V) Current (10A/5A) Frequency
+3.3 - 28A -12 - 0.8A BLK - COM
+5 - 40A -5 - 0.5A GRN - P-ON
+12 - 25A +5 - 2.0A GRY - PG

+5 AND +3.3V AND 12V COMBINED. OUTPUT: 450 WATT MAX

Replace with above PSU and still nothing change The system just CAN NOT goes any higher than 160FSB. I'm just thinking about replace my existing Kington memory with G.SKILL dual kit module such as these:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Custra...82E16820231032

and perhap go ahead and replace the PSU like Ropey recommended, Fortron model FSP AX450-PN. Or better yet, purchase a whole new Prescott CPU, like this one:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819116172
or
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819116175
Any suggestion anyone?
Here are some pictures which I've snapped from the CPU-Z program,
Attachment 23443

Attachment 23444

Attachment 23445

Attachment 23446

Attachment 23447




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post #26 of 36
You have a poor chip for overclocking. I can not see how the ram can be the issue as long as you have the timings loosened for testing. But it would be good to test with another stick of ram to complete the isolation since if you install another 3200 stick and you still have the problem then you have isolated the ram out of the equation (it already is in my eyes though) in case it is a poor stick of ram (and this does happen).

Edit: Just found:

Page Title: Prescott 2.4A SL7E8

A mysterious Prescott 2.4A with S-Spec of SL7E8 has surfaced in Japan 2 days ago. It is running at 533Mhz FSB with 1.4V VCore but has no HT Technology. Prescott will take on a new D-0 stepping to replace the current C-0 stepping and D-0 stepping incorporates planned power optimizations to enable speed enhancements therefore overclockability might improve with the new stepping. This Prescott 2.4A SL7E8 is based on the newly revised S-Spec for D-0 Stepping but something else tells us that it might not be the new stepping yet.

The CrystalCPUID screenshot revealed something interesting. While the S-Spec of SL7E8 confirms that the Prescott 2.4A is a D-0 stepping but the CPUID shows that it is still a C-0 stepping. D-0 stepping should have a CPUID of 0F34h instead of 0F33h therefore this Prescott 2.4A is still a C0.

I missed that you have a C0 stepping as I had previously thought that all 2.4A's were D0 or greater. The C0 is a terrible overclocking chip.

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post #27 of 36
Thread Starter 
Ropey - you're too cool
Anyhow, what do you think about my next investment in the new Prescott CPU purchase? Or do you know anyone who would sell such a good chip for OC? I'm looking out for the 3.0GHz, 3.2Ghz or above - any suggestion?
Do you think I would benefit from the dual DDR kits from G.SKILL, because I want to have a least 2GByte of RAM in the system? Thanks
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post #28 of 36
Dual DDR Ram is a misnomer. There is no such thing. There is Dual DDR Motherboard platforms that create Dual channel with 2 sticks of SPD identical dram.

If you purchase two sticks of ram with the same SPD (Serial Presence Detect) settings then you will achieve the Dual Channel capabilities of the motherboard. Two sticks of the same ram will work and no kit is necessary unless it is cheaper

2GB of ram on that motherboard will drop your ram to a 2T (Ticks) command rate and this will slow you down. Unless you are doing heavy video editing (compressing/decompressing/rendering) then I would say you might wish to rethink your increase). The only other reason would be for games but your 9600pro precludes you using the advanced eye-candy/texturing in games that work better in a 2GB machine.

My advice? Sell, your processor and move to an E0 revision P4. You can very likely make 3.8GHz with one of those.

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post #29 of 36
Thread Starter 
Thanks - Dopley,
I really LIKE this Asus mobo, P4P800E-Deluxe, therefore, I think I'm going to keep it for a while. In your opinion and experience, what would be the most optimum CPU and stable OC for such mobo above? Cost is not an option - I just want the highest stable OC CPU with my current setup? Please advice....
I think that I'll go ahead and place order for the G.Skill memory kit (2Gbyte). ddedicate
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post #30 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddedicate
Thanks - Dopley,
I really LIKE this Asus mobo, P4P800E-Deluxe, therefore, I think I'm going to keep it for a while. In your opinion and experience, what would be the most optimum CPU and stable OC for such mobo above? Cost is not an option - I just want the highest stable OC CPU with my current setup? Please advice....
I think that I'll go ahead and place order for the G.Skill memory kit (2Gbyte). ddedicate
Regarding "Dopely", Ropely and other names...

The first time was funny. Now it is NOT.

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