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post #6761 of 18197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalcifer View Post

Is that Bitfenix Spectre PRO Series Tinted Transparent Black with White LEDs? It doesn't look tinted at all.

Yea that's them, those LEDs are bright but they are tinted.
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post #6762 of 18197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gda13 View Post

Just started putting my rig together and stripping down my old one....So what do you think the best PWM fans for a rad (h100) are right now? I pulled the trigger too quickly on my Gelid 12 PWMs the specs of which are nowhere near those of the stock fans. I need the best balance of performance and PWM control thinking.gif All suggestions are welcome...thanks!

To be honest, you're likely not going to find any fans with the performance of the stock fans unless you look at something like some Delta fans or high speed Scythe GTs. The static pressure at full speed on the stock fans is really excellent (7.7mm/H20).

It's fairly simple to replace the fans once you have the unit installed, so if I was you I would give the Gelid fans a try and see how you like them first. My H100 is performing well, and I'm using the Scythe Slip Stream 1900 RPM fans. I have no idea what the static pressure is on them (scythe seems to be allergic to including static pressure in their specs), but they seem to be working OK. However, I bet they are nowhere near the performance of the stock fans on a rad.

Arctic seems to make some OK PWM fans. To be honest, I don't think I've ever seen any computer PWM rad fans with as high a static pressure as the stock fans are rated for. Most of the fans I see have a static pressure similar to the H100 stock fans on LOW RPM(1.6mm/H20). In this instance I will have to suggest you ask someone who has tried a wider variety of PWM fans.

Actually, this one looks pretty good:

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=16823&CatId=802

It's a Cooler Master R4, up to 2000 RPM, 76.8CFM, static pressure 0.40 - 3.9mmH20 (basically 4mmH20), which is not as good as the stock fans, but still pretty good compared to others I have seen.

If these are what you got, they're not too bad at 2.61mmH2O:

http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX37464

And they're quieter at full speed (1500 RPM), but have nowhere near the top performance.

This is what I'm using (without the control):

http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX27656

Those are more of a case fan I think, judging from the blade design, so the static pressure likely isn't very good. However, it was all that was available locally and I didn't want to do a 'net order just for a couple of fans.

A lot of people are more concerned with noise than performance. You can go to this thread:

http://www.overclock.net/t/859483/round-6-fan-testing-working-thread

and see if they tested any PWM fans. They are more concerned with noise/performance than just pure performance. They like the Yate Loons and Scythe GTs because they have good performance at low noise levels and RPMs, but I don't think either one is going to hit 7.7mmH2O like the stock H100 fans, and I don't think there are any PWM Loons. If you can find some high speed Scythe GTs (3000 RPM) they should be good performers and quiet at low RPMs with the headroom to increase RPM and improve performance. There is a thread showing how you can convert one of the high speed Scythe GT fan (AP-30) to PWM here:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1045524/gentle-typhoon-pwm-mod

Note it doesn't work on all models, but most likely will on all the high speed models.

EDIT:

I was looking through my browser bookmarks and I found the link to the site where the guy was testing push vs pull and shrouds. I think I had it backwards. He says pull is more effective at low RPM, while push is better at high RPM. Just note this section: "Push vs Pull vs Push/Shroud vs Pull/Shroud 25mm Fan - 1350 RPM" toward the bottom of the page. It's done with 25mm fans, and shows the difference between push and pull in his setup (150 Watts) was only 0.26 degrees c at 1350 RPM (Yate Loons I think).

http://martinsliquidlab.i4memory.com/Radiator-Fan-Orientation-And-Shroud-Testing-Review.html

So, people worrying over push vs pull are really worrying over less than 1c. Now, perhaps case mounting makes more of a difference between push vs pull but generally I don't think we'll see major performance differences.

Here's the odd thing, it shows pull with a shroud to be better than push with a shroud, but again the difference is less than 1c. I'm a little at odds with his conclusions though. I personally wouldn't bother with a shroud for less than 1c.

Also, you can see at the bottom where he claims 20-30% improvement with push/pull over just push or pull. This is at odds with measurements done by Corsair on the H100 in the lab. Corsair George says that measuring the difference between push vs push/pull that Corsair got less than 1c.

Who ya going to believe? Because of data like this, I prefer to test myself and chose whatever seems to work best for me. It seems everywhere you look on the 'net, you get different results and opinions. Who knows why (conditions, testing methods or whatever)? I can only say, if you test two configurations on your rig, and one gives you better temps than the other, you'll know which to use. In the case of the H100, with zero modding in the 600t, your choice is very easy to test. Push/intake vs pull/exhaust. Install everything for testing, and the next test only requires you to flip the fans over. Make sure you run the system with a good load like Prime 95 or Intel Burn Test for at least a half hour to allow the H100 temp to stabilize. Take a screenshot of your load software running, and something like speedfan running showing your temps. Then turn the system off, flip the fans and retest the exact same way. Do another screenshot and then display both screenshots side by side to see which is giving you better temps. Don't forget to include your video card and chipset temps as they will be effected between intake and exhaust. Also don't forget to take your room temp (ambient) into account. If your room temp goes up by 1c during testing, you can expect your results to go up by 1c as well.

Here is the last thing to consider. Intake with no filter (extreme case):

http://www.overclock.net/t/612436/official-corsair-hydro-series-club/6230#post_8894561

My rad, using exhaust, never even gets close to this dusty. Since the only intakes on my case both have filters, when I clean my case there is only a small amount of dust in it (clean every 3 months or thereabouts). Personally, I like low maintenance and so my system is set up with the H100 in exhaust even though it doesn't give as low a CPU temp as intake on the H100 provides.

I never have to clean out my rad because there's never any dust in it. Usually a little on the fans blades (my fans are inside the case with the rad up top, push/exhaust), so the dust is filtered before reaching the rad.

Sorry to blather on so much guys, but it seem people ask a lot of questions about this very topic. I'm going to link this comment for future reference.
Edited by Mergatroid - 6/27/12 at 5:59pm
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post #6763 of 18197
I just installed a white LED Bitfenix Spectre Pro for the front intake and wow it took the annoying whine away. What a great fan. It looks sexy too.
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post #6764 of 18197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mergatroid View Post

To be honest, you're likely not going to find any fans with the performance of the stock fans unless you look at something like some Delta fans or high speed Scythe GTs. The static pressure at full speed on the stock fans is really excellent (7.7mm/H20).
It's fairly simple to replace the fans once you have the unit installed, so if I was you I would give the Gelid fans a try and see how you like them first. My H100 is performing well, and I'm using the Scythe Slip Stream 1900 RPM fans. I have no idea what the static pressure is on them (scythe seems to be allergic to including static pressure in their specs), but they seem to be working OK. However, I bet they are nowhere near the performance of the stock fans on a rad.
Arctic seems to make some OK PWM fans. To be honest, I don't think I've ever seen any computer PWM rad fans with as high a static pressure as the stock fans are rated for. Most of the fans I see have a static pressure similar to the H100 stock fans on LOW RPM(1.6mm/H20). In this instance I will have to suggest you ask someone who has tried a wider variety of PWM fans.
Actually, this one looks pretty good:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=16823&CatId=802
It's a Cooler Master R4, up to 2000 RPM, 76.8CFM, static pressure 0.40 - 3.9mmH20 (basically 4mmH20), which is not as good as the stock fans, but still pretty good compared to others I have seen.
If these are what you got, they're not too bad at 2.61mmH2O:
http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX37464
And they're quieter at full speed (1500 RPM), but have nowhere near the top performance.
This is what I'm using (without the control):
http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX27656
Those are more of a case fan I think, judging from the blade design, so the static pressure likely isn't very good. However, it was all that was available locally and I didn't want to do a 'net order just for a couple of fans.
A lot of people are more concerned with noise than performance. You can go to this thread:
http://www.overclock.net/t/859483/round-6-fan-testing-working-thread
and see if they tested any PWM fans. They are more concerned with noise/performance than just pure performance. They like the Yate Loons and Scythe GTs because they have good performance at low noise levels and RPMs, but I don't think either one is going to hit 7.7mmH2O like the stock H100 fans, and I don't think there are any PWM Loons. If you can find some high speed Scythe GTs (3000 RPM) they should be good performers and quiet at low RPMs with the headroom to increase RPM and improve performance. There is a thread showing how you can convert one of the high speed Scythe GT fan (AP-30) to PWM here:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1045524/gentle-typhoon-pwm-mod
Note it doesn't work on all models, but most likely will on all the high speed models.
EDIT:
I was looking through my browser bookmarks and I found the link to the site where the guy was testing push vs pull and shrouds. I think I had it backwards. He says pull is more effective at low RPM, while push is better at high RPM. Just note this section: "Push vs Pull vs Push/Shroud vs Pull/Shroud 25mm Fan - 1350 RPM" toward the bottom of the page. It's done with 25mm fans, and shows the difference between push and pull in his setup (150 Watts) was only 0.26 degrees c at 1350 RPM (Yate Loons I think).
http://martinsliquidlab.i4memory.com/Radiator-Fan-Orientation-And-Shroud-Testing-Review.html
So, people worrying over push vs pull are really worrying over less than 1c. Now, perhaps case mounting makes more of a difference between push vs pull but generally I don't think we'll see major performance differences.
Here's the odd thing, it shows pull with a shroud to be better than push with a shroud, but again the difference is less than 1c. I'm a little at odds with his conclusions though. I personally wouldn't bother with a shroud for less than 1c.
Also, you can see at the bottom where he claims 20-30% improvement with push/pull over just push or pull. This is at odds with measurements done by Corsair on the H100 in the lab. Corsair George says that measuring the difference between push vs push/pull that Corsair got less than 1c.
Who ya going to believe? Because of data like this, I prefer to test myself and chose whatever seems to work best for me. It seems everywhere you look on the 'net, you get different results and opinions. Who knows why (conditions, testing methods or whatever)? I can only say, if you test two configurations on your rig, and one gives you better temps than the other, you'll know which to use. In the case of the H100, with zero modding in the 600t, your choice is very easy to test. Push/intake vs pull/exhaust. Install everything for testing, and the next test only requires you to flip the fans over. Make sure you run the system with a good load like Prime 95 or Intel Burn Test for at least a half hour to allow the H100 temp to stabilize. Take a screenshot of your load software running, and something like speedfan running showing your temps. Then turn the system off, flip the fans and retest the exact same way. Do another screenshot and then display both screenshots side by side to see which is giving you better temps. Don't forget to include your video card and chipset temps as they will be effected between intake and exhaust. Also don't forget to take your room temp (ambient) into account. If your room temp goes up by 1c during testing, you can expect your results to go up by 1c as well.
Here is the last thing to consider. Intake with no filter (extreme case):
http://www.overclock.net/t/612436/official-corsair-hydro-series-club/6230#post_8894561
My rad, using exhaust, never even gets close to this dusty. Since the only intakes on my case both have filters, when I clean my case there is only a small amount of dust in it (clean every 3 months or thereabouts). Personally, I like low maintenance and so my system is set up with the H100 in exhaust even though it doesn't give as low a CPU temp as intake on the H100 provides.
I never have to clean out my rad because there's never any dust in it. Usually a little on the fans blades (my fans are inside the case with the rad up top, push/exhaust), so the dust is filtered before reaching the rad.
Sorry to blather on so much guys, but it seem people ask a lot of questions about this very topic. I'm going to link this comment for future reference.

Very informative post ... +1 rep 4U...and thanks for taking the time. With regards to the stock fans I know the specs cannot be matched by 3rd party PWM fans but just wanted to get an idea of what there is out there to work with. I found the following table quite helpful in giving me a starting point http://www.xbitlabs.com/picture/?src=/images/coolers/120mm-fan-roundup-2/01_spec_big.png

No worries about the Gelids since they are very quiet I am going to use them in a media center rig I will be putting together with excess components I have from my previous build which is a SFF pc. At the moment I am considering the CM blade masters and the CM excalibers...I am not overly concerned with noise myself so I would rather go for a bit higher performance.

Also since I would like to use the stock RAD mount position of the case I will be setting this up for intake but with filters of course, I have a couple of these laying around http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006RD0U54/ref=oh_details_o03_s00_i00 and the mesh is identical to that on the dust filters of the case itself so it should help.

Once I am all set up I think I will go ahead and test a few different scenarios as you suggested and see what works best, also going to get a PWM splitter and run the 2 RAD fans straight off the motherboard...thanks again!
Edited by Gda13 - 6/27/12 at 10:17pm
post #6765 of 18197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gda13 View Post

Very informative post ... +1 rep 4U...and thanks for taking the time. With regards to the stock fans I know the specs cannot be matched by 3rd party PWM fans but just wanted to get an idea of what there is out there to work with. I found the following table quite helpful in giving me a starting point http://www.xbitlabs.com/picture/?src=/images/coolers/120mm-fan-roundup-2/01_spec_big.png
No worries about the Gelids since they are very quiet I am going to use them in a media center rig I will be putting together with excess components I have from my previous build which is a SFF pc. At the moment I am considering the CM blade masters and the CM excalibers...I am not overly concerned with noise myself so I would rather go for a bit higher performance.
Also since I would like to use the stock RAD mount position of the case I will be setting this up for intake but with filters of course, I have a couple of these laying around http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006RD0U54/ref=oh_details_o03_s00_i00 and the mesh is identical to that on the dust filters of the case itself so it should help.
Once I am all set up I think I will go ahead and test a few different scenarios as you suggested and see what works best, also going to get a PWM splitter and run the 2 RAD fans straight off the motherboard...thanks again!

Great chart. It has a nice variety of fans. Love those Deltas. Could likely make your case hover with a few of those (or hoover depending on intake vs exhaust). Those filters should work great. Just make sure they will fit under the top mesh. It won't handle much more than a 25mm thick fan up there. If you remove the plastic support frame (or some of it) from under the top mesh it may offer the room you need.

I put a 120mm hole in the bottom of my case and I use this on it with the fan set to intake for a little extra fresh air: http://www.amazon.com/SilverStone-120mm-Filter-Grill-FF121B/dp/B0036WTDHK/ref=pd_bxgy_pc_img_c they're ok but you sure see them in a lot of stuff. I'll keep my eye peeled for some of the FF122s. I like how easy it is to remove them for cleaning.

Please post your results here for your configuration tests. Your screenshots would be nice for other people trying to decide which to choose.
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post #6766 of 18197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mergatroid View Post

Great chart. It has a nice variety of fans. Love those Deltas. Could likely make your case hover with a few of those (or hoover depending on intake vs exhaust). Those filters should work great. Just make sure they will fit under the top mesh. It won't handle much more than a 25mm thick fan up there. If you remove the plastic support frame (or some of it) from under the top mesh it may offer the room you need.
I put a 120mm hole in the bottom of my case and I use this on it with the fan set to intake for a little extra fresh air: http://www.amazon.com/SilverStone-120mm-Filter-Grill-FF121B/dp/B0036WTDHK/ref=pd_bxgy_pc_img_c they're ok but you sure see them in a lot of stuff. I'll keep my eye peeled for some of the FF122s. I like how easy it is to remove them for cleaning.
Please post your results here for your configuration tests. Your screenshots would be nice for other people trying to decide which to choose.

Yeah those Deltas are crazy...wouldn't mind having a few to experiment with. I did see some posts regarding the top mesh mod for cutting down some excess noise so I had planned to do that anyway and yep, a test fit with filters and fans provides me another reason to do it.

You know I saw several cases with the 120mm fan on the bottom and when I bought my case I completely expected that there was a mount down there. So to my surprise and disappointment when I finally took out the case from the box a few days ago to get started I saw there was no such place for a fan. Just curious about what method you used to cut this out...freehand with dremel, hole saw or some other way?
post #6767 of 18197
Like Mergatroid said, some high speed Gentle Typhoons my fit the bill. They can be easily converted to 4 pin with PWM. Here is a guide to that.

Personally I like the Akasa Viper fans. They have great static pressure and are PWM. But if you want extreme, then go with the HS GT
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post #6768 of 18197
Here is mine. built it back in december. almost done doing all my tweaking and stuff. love the custom side panel i got for it. 1/2" thick acrylic. took almost 2 months to get it, but it was well worth the wait. only thing left to do is finish making the shelf for he bottom, which is currently the cardboard mock up i have in there.

LL

LL

LL
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post #6769 of 18197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimcy View Post

Here is mine. built it back in december. almost done doing all my tweaking and stuff. love the custom side panel i got for it. 1/2" thick acrylic. took almost 2 months to get it, but it was well worth the wait. only thing left to do is finish making the shelf for he bottom, which is currently the cardboard mock up i have in there.
LL
LL
LL

I really like those custom acrylic panels and am seriously considering one. Where did you get yours from and what did it cost?
post #6770 of 18197
i got mine from mnpctech (www.mnpctech.com). it took about 7 weeks to get if i remember right and it was $140 including shipping. i absolutely love it. it fits great. the latches dont pop out and so far, it doesnt get scratched easily.
Newest Build
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel I7 2600k ASUS P8Z68 Deluxe EVGA GeForce 560 GTX Corsair Vengeance 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
OCZ vertex 3 SSD Seagate Barracuda 7200 RPM Sata Antec Kuhler H20 620 Win7 Pro 64bit 
MonitorPowerCaseMouse
Samsung Sycmaster Corsair GS800 Corsair Graphite 600T White Edition Razer Naga 
Other
Realtek Onboard Audio 
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Newest Build
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel I7 2600k ASUS P8Z68 Deluxe EVGA GeForce 560 GTX Corsair Vengeance 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
OCZ vertex 3 SSD Seagate Barracuda 7200 RPM Sata Antec Kuhler H20 620 Win7 Pro 64bit 
MonitorPowerCaseMouse
Samsung Sycmaster Corsair GS800 Corsair Graphite 600T White Edition Razer Naga 
Other
Realtek Onboard Audio 
  hide details  
Reply
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