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[Official] Fractal Design Case Club - Page 1312

post #13111 of 16136
Quote:
Originally Posted by gftgy View Post

I've been poking around other forums and threads for the past three weeks, but I outlined the idea here a few days ago. I'm looking at having a thick 280mm rad in the front, thick 140mm rad on the bottom, and thick 140mm rad at rear exhaust, with all radiators in a push-pull setup with 25mm thick fans and shrouds or gaskets. Looking to fit a ~1000W power supply. I'm also considering the possibility of mounting a reservoir on the grilled area above the power supply to the side of the PCIe mounting slots, and whether a 257mm or 267mm wide motherboard would fit.

By my rough estimates, that gives me only a few millimeters of clearance around several problem areas, which is too close for guesstimation comfort. I can tweak the setup a bit as necessary if I have the actual measurements, or buy with certainty that everything will fit.

Wirerat was kind enough to chime in but as I pointed out it didn't answer many questions without the measurements.

Well what Wirerat said really should take care of it. Unless your doing or using something no ones ever seen you should be just fine.

post #13112 of 16136
It absolutely does not take care of it. mad.gif

It does not answer how much space is available for the power supply and its cabling.
It does not answer whether a 140mm radiator can be rotated (fit in one direction or the other) on the bottom, or whether some 140mm radiators would be too large, as varying radiators of the same fan size and thickness do not have have the same width and length.
It does not answer how much space is available for the front fans, shrouds/gaskets, and radiator. The GPU will not be the limiting factor. The middle radiator will be, and I still don't know where that is specifically in the case.
It does not answer whether a 140mm radiator can be rotated at the rear exhaust, nor whether it will allow the top PCIe bracket to be utilized by a graphics card that extends above the bracket, nor how tall the motherboard IO assembly can be. Pictures do not show anywhere close to three inches of vertical clearance, and my guess is he either interpreted it for a 120mm rad or made a bad estimation.
It does not answer how wide or whether a 257mm wide motherboard will fit.
It does not answer how large or whether a reservoir can be mounted by the PCIe brackets.

So again, I'm appreciative of the help and input, but it didn't really answer anything.

I recognize some of these measurements might be difficult to take with an active case. It's not like most people just have an empty R5 lying around. But at least the measurements from the back of the front fans to the rear of the case or from the internal wall to the side of the case shouldn't be hard to make for most setups. I've been at this for three weeks and I'm getting frustrated.
Edited by gftgy - 7/29/15 at 2:53pm
post #13113 of 16136
Quote:
Originally Posted by JynxLee View Post

Unless your doing or using something no ones ever seen you should be just fine.

I guess I'm trying to do something no one has ever seen.
post #13114 of 16136
Hey guys. I've been reading this thread in silence way too long for now. As this mostly goes around R5 and S, I was wondering are there any Node 804 owners? Would it be possible to mod it having full atx mobo horizontally? This idea tempts me : O
post #13115 of 16136
It might be wide enough to fit but the amount of cutting, drilling and reconstructing is not going to be small. Laying a tower case flat is simply easier tongue.gif
post #13116 of 16136
Hello Fractal owners!

I'm about to rebuild my husband's i7 950 with an Asus R4E and 3930k that I replaced with my sig system. They will go in a Define XL R2. I want to run six fans, most likely Noctua NF-A14s.

I am aiming for quiet and cool over performance. Although I ran the 3930k under water at an easy 4.5, I am looking to run his system at stock, and maybe raise to 4.0 if the temps are good. It's a 70/40 work/gaming rig - consistent and reliable.

My question is on fans, and PWM versus DC control. I have not ordered the fans yet, but will probably be Noctua NF-A14s, all PWM or all DC three pin. Without a stand alone fan controller, using my motherboard, my choices seem to be:

1. DC, off of PSU, constant speed. Use speed adapter resistors to control speed.
2. DC, spread across several "four pin" motherboard headers to control speed.
3. PWM, single PWM hub (Swiftech seems to to be the go to for this) to CPU_Opt, which I understand that my motherboard will run them at same speeds as CPU fan (an NH-D15s) with no independent control.

What is the preferred option? Also, if using the all PWM option, is it ok to run some of the fans using the speed adapter and others without? If it is ok to do so, with mixed voltage reduced fans, should the "master" fan to the MB from the PWM fan hub be a full speed fan?

Thanks in advance for insight and help!
    
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post #13117 of 16136
Quote:
Originally Posted by fresca View Post

Without a stand alone fan controller... What is the preferred option?

Assuming you don't have a graphics card in the system (because you didn't mention it), and only need to cool the power-hungry 3930k and don't have other obstructions in the case, six Noctua NF-A14 FLX running at 1050 rpm through the "Low Noise Adapter" should provide plenty of airflow in the XL R2 to handle the NH-D15 if they spin up all the way to 1500 rpm. I would say if the consistent noise level of the A14s with the LNA is good, (D15 will make the most noise), then just connect them to the power supply and leave them be. If you want to be able to run the computer with fans quieter than that (or off), then you shouldn't have much issue using a couple splitters and running them off of the motherboard.

I wouldn't recommend getting the PWM fans, because as you mentioned, you won't have control over them while they share the header with the D15. In general, you do not want to use voltage to control PWM fans, because it can result in a high pitched whine or clicking noise, and possibly damage motor commutation and control electronics of the fan, significantly reducing its life.

Noctua's PWM fans are packaged with the LNAs, though. This could be a vestigial remnant from before PWM was popular, or I've read from unreliable sources that they design their PWM fans to be operated at lower voltages. The air cooling subforum might know more.
post #13118 of 16136
Quote:
Originally Posted by fresca View Post

My question is on fans, and PWM versus DC control. I have not ordered the fans yet, but will probably be Noctua NF-A14s, all PWM or all DC three pin. Without a stand alone fan controller, using my motherboard, my choices seem to be:

1. DC, off of PSU, constant speed. Use speed adapter resistors to control speed.
2. DC, spread across several "four pin" motherboard headers to control speed.
3. PWM, single PWM hub (Swiftech seems to to be the go to for this) to CPU_Opt, which I understand that my motherboard will run them at same speeds as CPU fan (an NH-D15s) with no independent control.

What is the preferred option? Also, if using the all PWM option, is it ok to run some of the fans using the speed adapter and others without? If it is ok to do so, with mixed voltage reduced fans, should the "master" fan to the MB from the PWM fan hub be a full speed fan?

Thanks in advance for insight and help!
PWM fans can be controlled by DC.

1) no, doesn't control based on need
2) ???, DC fans can't be controlled by PWM, unless your PWM fan headers can also control via DC
3) no

4) get fans that your mobo headers support, or just get PWM fans, plug them into mobo and control them based on temperature via mobo, can be set in UEFI, this way the fans will ramp up and down as you want when you want, most mobos have around 5 fan headers that can control fans, which is plenty and if it's not enough you can always use a splitter as most PC fans are low power and the fan headers can easily handle 2 each

Those Noctua adapters are a thing of the past when mobos didn't have fan headers that could control PWM or DC.
Edited by JackCY - 7/30/15 at 4:39am
post #13119 of 16136
Quote:
Originally Posted by gftgy View Post

Assuming you don't have a graphics card in the system (because you didn't mention it), and only need to cool the power-hungry 3930k and don't have other obstructions in the case, six Noctua NF-A14 FLX running at 1050 rpm through the "Low Noise Adapter" should provide plenty of airflow in the XL R2 to handle the NH-D15 if they spin up all the way to 1500 rpm. I would say if the consistent noise level of the A14s with the LNA is good, (D15 will make the most noise), then just connect them to the power supply and leave them be. If you want to be able to run the computer with fans quieter than that (or off), then you shouldn't have much issue using a couple splitters and running them off of the motherboard.

I wouldn't recommend getting the PWM fans, because as you mentioned, you won't have control over them while they share the header with the D15. In general, you do not want to use voltage to control PWM fans, because it can result in a high pitched whine or clicking noise, and possibly damage motor commutation and control electronics of the fan, significantly reducing its life.

Noctua's PWM fans are packaged with the LNAs, though. This could be a vestigial remnant from before PWM was popular, or I've read from unreliable sources that they design their PWM fans to be operated at lower voltages. The air cooling subforum might know more.

Yes, I do have two 580 GTX cards in that system - more heat (and noise). Running FLX fans will still be sufficient, correct? I was leaning toward FLX over PWM, but I think you just sealed the deal, thanks!
Edited by fresca - 7/30/15 at 6:00am
    
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post #13120 of 16136
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackCY View Post

PWM fans can be controlled by DC.

1) no, doesn't control based on need
2) ???, DC fans can't be controlled by PWM, unless your PWM fan headers can also control via DC
3) no

4) get fans that your mobo headers support, or just get PWM fans, plug them into mobo and control them based on temperature via mobo, can be set in UEFI, this way the fans will ramp up and down as you want when you want, most mobos have around 5 fan headers that can control fans, which is plenty and if it's not enough you can always use a splitter as most PC fans are low power and the fan headers can easily handle 2 each

Those Noctua adapters are a thing of the past when mobos didn't have fan headers that could control PWM or DC.

My motherboard's chassis four pin headers are fake PWM, and actually use DC - http://www.overclock.net/t/1401311/asus-rampage-extreme-iv-pwm-problem. Very irritating. So, if I want PWM case fans, they have to run off of one of the two CPU headers, which are the only two real PWM. On top of that, CPU_OPT just follows the CPU header, and can't be controlled independently.

So, it seems an order of FLX fans running "naked" (without the LNA adapters) off the motherboard chassis connections are the way to go...
Edited by fresca - 7/30/15 at 6:03am
    
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