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post #14441 of 16055
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fractal Design View Post

This is a really helpful bit of feedback. The moment I saw this I went out to take a closer look for myself. After some research, I've got to say I agree this is an aspect of fan performance where a some extra focus on improvement could really do a look of good. I've shared my thoughts on this with the rest of the team and it's brought up some good discussion on the topic.

Just wanted to say thanks for putting this detail in view.

I thought the fractal venturi static pressure fans where pretty good. Saw a video review of them that made them look solid to me.

As for the 202 parts. I believe he may have removed them permanently and that's why he's looking for another set. He'll chime in if I'm wrong I'm sure.
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post #14442 of 16055
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fractal Design View Post

This is a really helpful bit of feedback. The moment I saw this I went out to take a closer look for myself. After some research, I've got to say I agree this is an aspect of fan performance where a some extra focus on improvement could really do a look of good. I've shared my thoughts on this with the rest of the team and it's brought up some good discussion on the topic.

Just wanted to say thanks for putting this detail in view.
No problems - happy to have inspired something. A sign why your company iterates so well!

As a background to this, I was alerted to this because of what I saw when just putting the front cover on the Define S (2x140mm fractal fans in front, no dust filter):


Since this was just the effect of a very open front, I then proceeded adding the dust filter... which was worse - and the airflow that I felt was just way below what I was used to.

Then I removed the 2 fractal fans altogether .. and got no difference in cooling performance. My 5 EK F1s running at 400-600rpm rpm were running the show completely - filter on/off, front cover.. all make no noticeable difference for their cooling performance. This (currently) leads me to believe that static pressure fans are nearly always the way the go unless someone needs a directed air flow.

Also your fan is not alone in this (even the 12cm Noctua's suffer from slow downs according to thermalbench aka 'Geggeg' on this forum)
     
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post #14443 of 16055
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fractal Design View Post

This is a really helpful bit of feedback. The moment I saw this I went out to take a closer look for myself. After some research, I've got to say I agree this is an aspect of fan performance where a some extra focus on improvement could really do a look of good. I've shared my thoughts on this with the rest of the team and it's brought up some good discussion on the topic.

Just wanted to say thanks for putting this detail in view.

I have an R4, so an older case with not the latest Fractal fans, but the cheapest (5 USD/4 EUR incl. 21% VAT) fans I could get Gelid Silent 14 have about the same performance airflow and pressure wise but they do not make undesirable noise when mounted horizontally such as case bottom and their motor is quiter with no clicking noise, had I bought more of them I would have swapped the FD R4 fans out. I'm sure there are some nice pressure fans at 12cm but getting decent pressure fans 14cm fans is difficult due to the lower blade speed to keep noise down. Still there are designs that do work (Thermalright, ...).

The front panel openings are small and restrict intake, filters are airflow killers, I don't notice some big fan speed drop but the airflow does go down a lot which is quite normal with filters and it certainly helps to have high pressure fans. All the stamped grills reduce airflow, I cut them out on my R4 first thing after testing them with a fan and how much they block. Filters I've swapped for a #200 mesh with 60.7% open area instead of the stock FD meshes that do not filter fine dust at all, I mean at all. Bottom of the cases is too low, make the feet higher, I have mine raised with rubber and longer screws by 1 inch so the bottom fan can intake air. If someone has a carpet and stock feet, the bottom fan will simply sit right on the carpet.




Summary:
  • Do not use grills, just leave the fan holes completely empty and cut out, if someone needs a protection for a rear fan include the typical wire addon grill which impedes airflow the least from all the grill options and can easily be removed as well.
  • Try to improve the fans so that they do not click, can run at any orientation without issues and added noise, have higher pressure to be able to handle radiators/filters/obstructions in airflow.
  • High case feet to improve bottom intake.
  • I'm sure others would appreciate EATX support for most common boards like R4 had, this is asked here all the time if R5 or S will fit this or that EATX board (X99s currently).
  • Use more fine dust filter mesh, such as #100 mesh instead of the #30ish ones.
  • Always use a front removal for bottom filter, still only R5 has it rest uses the R4 bottom which only allows filter to be removed at the rear, I had to mod my R4 to remove filter at front. Also bigger opening for PSU fan so that even bigger PSUs are not blocked as much.

Edited by JackCY - 7/14/16 at 7:06pm
post #14444 of 16055
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fractal Design View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mypickaxe View Post

I contacted Fractal support and they indicated they do not sell any replacement parts for the Node 202. That is somewhat odd. Just know all of the cables in that case are custom fit for that case - with the exception of the ridiculously long USB headers. That's all I wanted, the front IO panel including the headers. They said they didn't have them.

I'm not buying another Node 202 for headers.

Oh, and I'm fixing the case by replacing it with a Define Nano S. The Node 202 will probably end up in a "revisit for future project" pile in my garage or attic.

This is something a lot of us here in the North American office would like to see. You're definitely not the first to ask for a way to buy parts. Every time I see a post like this, though, I make sure all the folks at HQ do too.

I'd still like to help if I can though. What was your plan with the replacement headers? How exactly were you going to go about using the extra parts to solve the cable length problem?

Thank you for reading and taking the time to respond. It's much appreciated.

Well, long story short, I was experimenting with radiator fitment and removed the headers. They were summarily missplaced (i.e. confused for rubbish) and thrown in the bin. So, my hope was I could get a replacement IO panel which would include the USB headers.

As far as length, I'm no stranger to splicing them down to size and resheathing. It was a bit less complicated when everything was but a flat ribbon cable so many years ago, but these are at least flat USB cables, so it can't be too terribly difficult.

As far as the Node 202, I am going to re-purpose it with my AMD gear, making it a streaming box.

I have already moved my latest Mini-ITX build over to the Nano S. It just came in today, and it only took 30 minutes to move everything out of the Node 202 and over to the Nano S. I could not be happier with the temperature improvements!
post #14445 of 16055
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackCY View Post

I have an R4, so an older case with not the latest Fractal fans, but the cheapest (5 USD/4 EUR incl. 21% VAT) fans I could get Gelid Silent 14 have about the same performance airflow and pressure wise but they do not make undesirable noise when mounted horizontally such as case bottom and their motor is quiter with no clicking noise, had I bought more of them I would have swapped the FD R4 fans out. I'm sure there are some nice pressure fans at 12cm but getting decent pressure fans 14cm fans is difficult due to the lower blade speed to keep noise down. Still there are designs that do work (Thermalright, ...).

The front panel openings are small and restrict intake, filters are airflow killers, I don't notice some big fan speed drop but the airflow does go down a lot which is quite normal with filters and it certainly helps to have high pressure fans. All the stamped grills reduce airflow, I cut them out on my R4 first thing after testing them with a fan and how much they block. Filters I've swapped for a #200 mesh with 60.7% open area instead of the stock FD meshes that do not filter fine dust at all, I mean at all. Bottom of the cases is too low, make the feet higher, I have mine raised with rubber and longer screws by 1 inch so the bottom fan can intake air. If someone has a carpet and stock feet, the bottom fan will simply sit right on the carpet.




Summary:
  • Do not use grills, just leave the fan holes completely empty and cut out, if someone needs a protection for a rear fan include the typical wire addon grill which impedes airflow the least from all the grill options and can easily be removed as well.
  • Try to improve the fans so that they do not click, can run at any orientation without issues and added noise, have higher pressure to be able to handle radiators/filters/obstructions in airflow.
  • High case feet to improve bottom intake.
  • I'm sure others would appreciate EATX support for most common boards like R4 had, this is asked here all the time if R5 or S will fit this or that EATX board (X99s currently).
  • Use more fine dust filter mesh, such as #100 mesh instead of the #30ish ones.
  • Always use a front removal for bottom filter, still only R5 has it rest uses the R4 bottom which only allows filter to be removed at the rear, I had to mod my R4 to remove filter at front. Also bigger opening for PSU fan so that even bigger PSUs are not blocked as much.

I like most of what you have to say but the proverbial but. I have to disagree with the removal of the fan grills. I get the less impeded air flow and could be all for it if they INCLUDED removable grills, but to just remove them and make me buy them if needed I'm against. Regardless if they're just a few bucks apiece.
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Panasonic 55" 3d plasma / Qnix QX2710 Cooler Master Quickfire TK Silverstone sst-st85f-p 850w silver Fractal Design arc mini r2 
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post #14446 of 16055
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jyve View Post

I like most of what you have to say but the proverbial but. I have to disagree with the removal of the fan grills. I get the less impeded air flow and could be all for it if they INCLUDED removable grills, but to just remove them and make me buy them if needed I'm against. Regardless if they're just a few bucks apiece.

I just clean my PC periodically and I live in a very very dusty area, I don't run filters, PITA.
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post #14447 of 16055
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackCY View Post

Summary:
  • I'm sure others would appreciate EATX support for most common boards like R4 had, this is asked here all the time if R5 or S will fit this or that EATX board (X99s currently).
+1!
Up to 272mm in width, please. Thanks.
post #14448 of 16055
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjiw View Post

I just clean my PC periodically and I live in a very very dusty area, I don't run filters, PITA.

Yeah I understand filters. I thought you meant the fan grills on the case. The honycombed part at the rear and top of the case.
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post #14449 of 16055
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jyve View Post

I like most of what you have to say but the proverbial but. I have to disagree with the removal of the fan grills. I get the less impeded air flow and could be all for it if they INCLUDED removable grills, but to just remove them and make me buy them if needed I'm against. Regardless if they're just a few bucks apiece.
Included wire grill, of course wink.gif
It's really only the rear one that can come in handy if you move your case a lot or just like to stick your hands behind the case to grab it and can't see there which is quite normal, still it's no trouble to not have any grill but some prefer to have one.
post #14450 of 16055
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jyve View Post

Yeah I understand filters. I thought you meant the fan grills on the case. The honycombed part at the rear and top of the case.

Wasn't me that brought it up to be fair hahaha! wink.gif
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EK AMD LTX XSPC Nylon Dual 5.25 Reservoir Inc Laing D5  Coolgate Triple HD360 Alphacool NexXxoS XT45 Full Copper 240mm 
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